Natural Sound

[PeterA]

The back panel seems to give the Hartsfield a bit more flexibility for setup. John has been building them with extra thick material and bracing to make them less likely to vibrate- something a bit harder to control if the wall itself is subjected to bass frequencies prior to exiting the mouth of the horn.

There are trade-offs. More flexibility with positioning, but if you pull it out, you don’t get the full advantage of using the walls to extend the horn. I would be curious to know how the back panel design deals with things like baseboards and corners that are not completely square. You then end up with a step at the boundary of the speaker where it hits the wall affecting the horn. In reality, I don’t know how much of a difference any of this makes. I also don’t know the design and shape of the folded horn for JBL Hartsfield.

Then there is the high frequency extension. I don’t think the Hartsfield goes as high as the Vitavox so people end up adding super tweeters complicating the crossover. It would be interesting to compare presentation differences. As with other designs, corner horns, apparently all sound different.

 

[Atmasphere]

Then there is the high frequency extension. I don’t think the Hartsfield goes as high as the Vitavox so people end up adding super tweeters complicating the crossover. It would be interesting to compare presentation differences. As with other designs, corner horns, apparently all sound different.

All the Hartsfields I've heard had a pair of tweeters crossed in at 12.5KHz, adjustable via rear panel controls. I'm very sure the drivers he used for the midrange horn were not stock as well but we've not talked about the differences.

 

[PeterA]

All the Hartsfields I've heard had a pair of tweeters crossed in at 12.5KHz, adjustable via rear panel controls. I'm very sure the drivers he used for the midrange horn were not stock as well but we've not talked about the differences.

The JBL that really interests me is the Paragon. Such a cool design and I’m told it sounds surprisingly good.

 

[bonzo75]

I don’t think the Hartsfield goes as high as the Vitavox so people end up adding super tweeters complicating the crossover. It would be interesting to compare presentation differences. As with other designs, corner horns, apparently all sound different.

Vitavox doesn’t go that high and fans of two ways prefer Vitavox with tweeter. Kevin Scott even in his older designs used tweeter and super tweeter with Vitavox S2. Misho likes S2 and S3 but can use Altec in two ways while for Vitavox he needs tweeter

 

[PeterA]

Vitavox doesn’t go that high and fans of two ways prefer Vitavox with tweeter. Kevin Scott even in his older designs used tweeter and super tweeter with Vitavox S2. Misho likes S2 and S3 but can use Altec in two ways while for Vitavox he needs tweeter

That’s fine. I haven’t heard them with super tweeters. I was told you lose the magic. I heard the S2 with super tweeters at Romy’s. Didn’t work for me.

The one time I heard Altec VOTT with Shindo it was not good. I’ve heard better videos and if I were looking for speakers, I’d probably consider them.

 

[bonzo75]

That’s fine. I haven’t heard them with super tweeters. I was told you lose the magic. I heard the S2 with super tweeters at Romy’s. Didn’t work for me.

The one time I heard Altec VOTT with Shindo it was not good. I’ve heard better videos and if I were looking for speakers, I’d probably consider them.

Yes there are many Altec VOTTs which are not good. The point I was making is those who don’t like tweeters need them with S2, not with Altec, because the S2 does not go high enough

 

[PeterA]

Yes there are many Altec VOTTs which are not good. The point I was making is those who don’t like tweeters need them with S2, not with Altec, because the S2 does not go high enough

My point was that it goes high enough for me but the JBL Heartsfield might not. 16 K versus 12 K. It’ll be interesting to see what system you eventually settle on.

 

[bonzo75]

. It’ll be interesting to see what system you eventually settle on.

I have already decided on Altec 817 if I want all out and feel enthusiastic enough to home tweak a bit, or universum if I want off the shelf

 

[Argonaut]

I was told you lose the magic

No … They were the magic beans that were sold to you.

 

[Argonaut]

A little educational referencing the JBL Hartsfield :

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/jbl-hartsfield.39169/

 

[Argonaut]

All the Hartsfields I've heard had a pair of tweeters crossed in at 12.5KHz, adjustable via rear panel controls. I'm very sure the drivers he used for the midrange horn were not stock as well but we've not talked about the differences.

Ralph , The 1964 and final production run of the Hartsfield in the main addressed the upper octave ceiling of previous production runs .
The new 085 configuration, consisting of the 150-4C bass driver, 375 midrange, 537-509 horn, 075 tweeter, N400(or N500H) and N7000 cross-overs, could now boast a bandwidth that would extend beyond the limits of human hearing.

 

[Argonaut]

The JBL that really interests me is the Paragon. Such a cool design and I’m told it sounds surprisingly good.

Why “surprisingly”

 

[tima]

I have already decided on Altec 817 if I want all out and feel enthusiastic enough to home tweak a bit, or universum if I want off the shelf

So what is holding you back? Owning a house with enough space?

 

[bonzo75]

So what is holding you back? Owning a house with enough space?

that is one, but I am not ready to sit and listen for hours, that does not fit in my daily life yet. I can only listen once or twice a month at best, so it is not a sonic choice, it is a personal lifestyle choice. Not mention that once you put the system in, the money pit starts and does not stop.

 

[tima]

The JBL that really interests me is the Paragon. Such a cool design and I’m told it sounds surprisingly good.

Mid-Century Furniture Art. The JBL D44000

1957 - 1983 26 years, purportedly the longest run of any JBL system. 9ft wide.

"The original configuration of the Paragon consisted of two 150-4C bass drivers mounted in separate, front-loaded horns. Two 375 compression drivers were mounted to H5038P-100 elliptical horns and each was aimed at one side of the curved panel. Two 075 ring radiators were mounted in the back of the cabinet and aimed at the center listening position. The drivers were crossed over at 500hz and 7000hz." ref

 

[tima]

Not mention that once you put the system in, the money pit starts and does not stop.

Nah, that starts with the house.

 

[Argonaut]

Repetition , do keep up.

 

[Atmasphere]

The JBL that really interests me is the Paragon. Such a cool design and I’m told it sounds surprisingly good.

John has both the big one and the little one in his listening room, both refurbished and in mint condition.

I got to hear what they are about and he agrees with me that his T-1 and T-3 sound better at the sacrifice of a bit of efficiency. If you have limited space the Paragon might be a really cool way to deal with (lovely mid century modern styling) it but in a larger space having separates allow you to cast a larger more realistic sound stage.

 

[PeterA]

I am sorry , but what on Earth are you talking about here ?

Vitavox CN - 191 are *Not* quite as rare as you like to make out , certainly not in the UK and laterally amongst vintage collectors in the Far East , your version of events rather smack's of a Fable that you have been sold on .

My first Vintage CN-191 mono was marked BL . 7 . 1A on the top of the main bass horn , the second was a partial re build of the rear cabinet due to woodworm , ergo not an essential section of the back horn , but the factory designation was missing , the Third mono which matched pretty darn closely with regard to the veneer's of No1 was marked BL . 7 . 2A , All three were also signed off *Inspector D . Johnstone* … my friend who let me buy the second to match CN-191’s from also had a pair marked BL . 6 . 1A and BL . 6 . 1A , this was back in the early 80’s and CN 191’s came up in sales and auctions a few times a year.

There are quite a few to be seen over in the Far East amongst the Vintage collectors , which Is where my final two were sold and shipped to Hong Kong .

A very nice pair for example :

There is much to hear in that room in the video. It’s a cool room with lots of gear. Can’t tell much about the sound. Curious that the corner horns are not actually in the corners and the corners that are in that room have very different materials.

On second viewing, it looks like they built backs to those Vitavox cabinet boxes so that they can be placed into the room, kind of defeating the idea of using the full two walls from the corners to extend the horn. At least that is what appears to be happening. The cabinet looks different for sure.

 

[davidavdavid]

Very incorrect statement. To start with, there are very few full range quality drivers. The only one I have heard is AER BD4 and 5, till 3 is not good enough. You might be comparing lowther. There is Feastrex, but I haven't heard it and very few people have.

With that kind of coherence and sensitivity, swings are amazing, best lows to highs, no need to touch volume on full orchestra. A good system should do dips and highs without touching the volume.

Later this month I will be fortunate enough to have a pair of speakers featuring the Feastrex D5NF drivers in my home. According to Satou-san "
It's a 5" alnico spherical magnetic circuit' and having heard so much of Feastrex: its history and attention to detail, design and construction I am chuffed to listen to them in my home, in my systems.

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