Natural Sound

[PeterA]

After finding an advertisement of the Vitavox CN-191 corner horn on the net and reading the reference to the February 1962 Hi-Fi News magazine article, I tracked down a copy of the magazine on Ebay. It is kind of fun to read the old magazine and see the advertisements for my speakers. Below are some images of:

1. The original Vitavox advertisement
2. The front and back cover of the magazine
3. A full two page advertisement of the speakers in the magazine
4. Page 1 of the article on folded horn speakers
5. Page 2 of the article on folded horn speakers
6. Page 3 of the article on folded horn speakers

 

[Lagonda]

After finding an advertisement of the Vitavox CN-191 corner horn on the net and reading the reference to the February 1962 Hi-Fi News magazine article, I tracked down a copy of the magazine on Ebay. It is kind of fun to read the old magazine and see the advertisements for my speakers. Below are some images of:

1. The original Vitavox advertisement
2. The front and back cover of the magazine
3. A full two page advertisement of the speakers in the magazine
4. Page 1 of the article on folded horn speakers
5. Page 2 of the article on folded horn speakers
6. Page 3 of the article on folded horn speakers

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Very cool !

 

[Argonaut]

I had no conception that DDK was writing adverts for Vitavox back in the day

 

[leyenda]

nice score! any other things you find interesting from the publication?

 

[PeterA]

nice score! any other things you find interesting from the publication?

I have not really looked at much of the rest of the magazine. I basically skimmed through it, and here are some initial impressions:

Of course the publication is much less glossy than what we are used to today. The emphasis seems to be on the technical aspects of the hobby and not so much on subjective listening impressions. The article about my speakers is a good example. It is basically a comparison between three similar type, folded horn speakers and how they differ technically, but there are no comments about how they actually sound different.

Another notable difference is the utter lack of any mention of what I think of as audio accessories.

 

[Rensselaer]

I have not really looked at much of the rest of the magazine. I basically skimmed through it, and here are some initial impressions:

Of course the publication is much less glossy than what we are used to today. The emphasis seems to be on the technical aspects of the hobby and not so much on subjective listening impressions. The article about my speakers is a good example. It is basically a comparison between three similar type, folded horn speakers and how they differ technically, but there are no comments about how they actually sound different.

Another notable difference is the utter lack of any mention of what I think of as audio accessories.

I don’t think they’d of gotten away with charging £130.00 for a fuse, or record clamp, back then. Don’t get me started on Shakti electromagnetic stabiliser stones, one (or more) to be placed atop each piece of equipment at £295.00 apiece!

 

[Atmasphere]

After finding an advertisement of the Vitavox CN-191 corner horn on the net and reading the reference to the February 1962 Hi-Fi News magazine article, I tracked down a copy of the magazine on Ebay. It is kind of fun to read the old magazine and see the advertisements for my speakers. Below are some images of:

1. The original Vitavox advertisement
2. The front and back cover of the magazine
3. A full two page advertisement of the speakers in the magazine
4. Page 1 of the article on folded horn speakers
5. Page 2 of the article on folded horn speakers
6. Page 3 of the article on folded horn speakers

View attachment 134796

Its lovely seeing the older magazines- seeing how things have changed.

The worry I have with older speakers in general is breakups, which were far more common back then due to the materials used (for example aluminum was common with a lot of compression drivers of the day). The smoother presentation is instantly audible if a comparison is possible.

 

[PeterA]

Its lovely seeing the older magazines- seeing how things have changed.

The worry I have with older speakers in general is breakups, which were far more common back then due to the materials used (for example aluminum was common with a lot of compression drivers of the day). The smoother presentation is instantly audible if a comparison is possible.

There’s nothing to worry about Ralph. If you don’t like older speakers, just buy newer ones. There are plenty of people who consider the rare and coveted older speakers to offer great performance and value, and the demand and prices are reflected in that recognition.

 

[Atmasphere]

There’s nothing to worry about Ralph. If you don’t like older speakers, just buy newer ones. There are plenty of people who consider the rare and coveted older speakers to offer great performance and value, and the demand and prices are reflected in that recognition.

Its also because those old drivers get rebuilt with new materials that show off what the designs can really do- that creates demand.

For example, the compression drivers in my speakers are actually older JBLs that have been modified to accept field coils and beryllium diaphragms with Kapton surrounds.The field coils make them faster and more dynamic; the beryllium doesn't break up until 35KHz and the Kapton surround keeps the diaphragm well-behaved with lower frequencies that are out of band- those frequencies are attenuated by the crossover of course but they still affect how the driver behaves. So the driver sounds a lot more natural than the original. It also unsurprisingly measures better too.

John Wolff has been using those older JBL drivers for 20 years or so and that's driven up the price.

Perhaps I used the word 'worry' a bit too strongly. Its just that knowing how a speaker without breakups can sound its hard to buy a different one knowing they could well be there.

 

[PeterA]

Its also because those old drivers get rebuilt with new materials that show off what the designs can really do- that creates demand.

For example, the compression drivers in my speakers are actually older JBLs that have been modified to accept field coils and beryllium diaphragms with Kapton surrounds.The field coils make them faster and more dynamic; the beryllium doesn't break up until 35KHz and the Kapton surround keeps the diaphragm well-behaved with lower frequencies that are out of band- those frequencies are attenuated by the crossover of course but they still affect how the driver behaves. So the driver sounds a lot more natural than the original. It also unsurprisingly measures better too.

John Wolff has been using those older JBL drivers for 20 years or so and that's driven up the price.

Perhaps I used the word 'worry' a bit too strongly. Its just that knowing how a speaker without breakups can sound its hard to buy a different one knowing they could well be there.

I was under the impression that unmodified originals are more coveted and in greater demand and command higher prices.

I wish you well with your business.

 

[Atmasphere]

Thanks!

I think you might be right, but in my case I prefer using the drivers as they are rather than as they were so resale isn't a concern. Updates and refurbishment doesn't always damage the original value ($$$) of the part or equipment if the work is done right (it really has to look neat!). Having done a lot of that sort of work on older amps and preamps, I'm always careful to warn the customer this could be a problem.

 

[Argonaut]

I was under the impression that unmodified originals are more coveted and in greater demand and command higher prices.

I wish you well with your business.

Who’s received wisdom are you quoting as your reference here ?

 

[bonzo75]

I was under the impression that unmodified originals are more coveted and in greater demand and command higher prices.

Unmodified original drivers are for TAD, Goto, Altec, etc. Maybe others as well, like Vitavox . But unmodified speakers are not as good as well modified ones.

 

[PeterA]

Unmodified original drivers are for TAD, Goto, Altec, etc. Maybe others as well, like Vitavox . But unmodified speakers are not as good as well modified ones.

That depends on how good the unmodified original version is. Rebuilding the cabinet and making everything stiffer might just kill the life out of the sound.

You can certainly modify your Altecs all you want. Don’t touch my Vitavox.

It’s a hobby and people should have fun and do what they want.

 

[Atmasphere]

That depends on how good the unmodified original version is. Rebuilding the cabinet and making everything stiffer might just kill the life out of the sound.

You can certainly modify your Altecs all you want. Don’t touch my Vitavox.i

FWIW department:
Usually making a speaker cabinet less resonant has big benefit. If it 'kills' the sound it probably didn't make it less resonant. If it were able to do such a thing, that means the cabinet is somehow contributing to the sound of the speaker (this does happen, usually in the bass FWIW) which is never a good thing. But if you are actually making the cabinet stiffer, Its more likely the drivers will do their job properly as long as the horn isn't compromised and that sort of thing.

Speakers that are horn loaded and do not have compression on the driver itself tend to have less trouble with the cabinet talking back to the actual signal. My speakers, while 98dB, are also a bass reflex and since they are flat to 20 Hz, require a large amount of damping and structural support since the box is pressurized to the port cutoff frequency. But a horn loaded setup like you have is far less likely to have this issue.

 

[bonzo75]

That depends on how good the unmodified original version is. Rebuilding the cabinet and making everything stiffer might just kill the life out of the sound.

You can certainly modify your Altecs all you want. Don’t touch my Vitavox.

It’s a hobby and people should have fun and do what they want.

Yes Magico’s one day, unmodified Vitavox the next. Whatever they want.

If I get Altecs they will be modded for sure, not to do what I want but to have a quality speaker

 

[Audiohertz2]

What mods are you doing to the Altec ..?

If I get Altecs they will be modded for sure, not to do what I want but to have a quality speaker

 

[PeterA]

Yes Magico’s one day, unmodified Vitavox the next. Whatever they want.

If I get Altecs they will be modded for sure, not to do what I want but to have a quality speaker

Yes, actually unmodified Magicos one day to unmodified Vitavox the next day. We make our choices.

Perhaps one day you might start your system thread and we will follow along your progress. I look forward to it.

 

[PeterA]

Its also because those old drivers get rebuilt with new materials that show off what the designs can really do- that creates demand.

For example, the compression drivers in my speakers are actually older JBLs that have been modified to accept field coils and beryllium diaphragms with Kapton surrounds.The field coils make them faster and more dynamic; the beryllium doesn't break up until 35KHz and the Kapton surround keeps the diaphragm well-behaved with lower frequencies that are out of band- those frequencies are attenuated by the crossover of course but they still affect how the driver behaves. So the driver sounds a lot more natural than the original. It also unsurprisingly measures better too.

John Wolff has been using those older JBL drivers for 20 years or so and that's driven up the price.

Perhaps I used the word 'worry' a bit too strongly. Its just that knowing how a speaker without breakups can sound its hard to buy a different one knowing they could well be there.

I’ve only heard a few beryllium tweeters, and they sounded unpleasant. I’ve never heard my compression driver break up. My ears would probably break before then.

There are lots of different approaches, and I appreciate that you may be talking your book.

 

[bonzo75]

Perhaps one day you might start your system thread and we will follow along your progress. I look forward to it.

I don’t want to buy a system so that people follow my thread. You have the wrong objective