Natural Sound

Yes, if the driver is hardly moving its a lot harder for it to distort. Diaphragms can break up despite that, causing distortion. That's the one thing that can be obnoxious on a horn midrange. In the old days this was common (the aluminum diaphragm of the Altec horns has this problem at higher levels). My horns use a beryllium diaphragm which has its first break up at about 35KHz, so its pretty smooth.

But in a home situation the side walls are a constant menace to smooth sound. Early reflections like you get with side walls are interpreted by the ear as harshness. Horns have a controlled directivity so can be used to minimize side wall reflections, resulting in smoother sound.

And corner horns with open backs use the front and side walls as extensions, I believe increasing sensitivity and also their ability to go lower in the bass region. My speakers' directionality basically seems to minimizes the side wall reflections. They point to the opposite rear corners of my near square room and then the reflections get broken up by those far away and irregular corners. The speakers behave very differently than my former speakers in that room.
 
What constitutes a horn? What about the Aries Cerat speaker. That looks to be a 6 or 8 inch driver in a transmission line. Is that a horn.
What about the Altec with the 1 to 2 x 12 inch drivers in a folded cabinet.
What about a single 12 in a ported box with a multicell on top?
What about a 12" open baffle driver set behind a 3" thick slab with a flared face?

How much material has to be in front of the driver to be considered a horn. And when does the port become a horn. As in the transmission line speaker. The large flared port appears to be a horn. But the sound is very directional from the cone driver in the face of the speaker. So is that a horn, or a speaker with a long port to extend the bass frequency.
I know the Symphonias well. They have a well executed round tractrix horn for the mids, and a tractrix flare of 3.3m (unfolded) for the bass. The tweeter is a ribbon, also in a flared chassis / horn to fine tune the dispersion.

IMO the biggest task in a horn speaker is not in the crossover, but in the horn chassis and design of the flare to negate diffraction. I feel Aries Cerat are onto something here, they spent thousands of hours getting this right. The sonic performance of the Symphonies is superb. At Munich they played all types of music, but one track I remember, a live recorded flamenco track, it made the ones listening weep, I kid you not. The smoothness of delivery was something have not heard in a horn speaker before. And the dynamics were off the scale.

If only I could afford them....
 
Some of the Aries Cerats are horns although to be clear, a waveguide is considered a horn.

Which model of Aries Cerat Horn do you consider to constitute a waveguide in form or function ?
 
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Romy the Cat is back at it with his "third way" (neither "absolute sound" nor "natural sound").


This is all barely comprehensible, and it seems to me like useless rambling by a guy with a chip on his shoulder, but perhaps someone will have the patience to listen to it and express another opinion.
 
I know the Symphonias well. They have a well executed round tractrix horn for the mids, and a tractrix flare of 3.3m (unfolded) for the bass. The tweeter is a ribbon, also in a flared chassis / horn to fine tune the dispersion.

At Munich they played all types of music, but one track I remember, a live recorded flamenco track, it made the ones listening weep, I kid you not. The smoothness of delivery was something have not heard in a horn speaker before. And the dynamics were off the scale.

This particular track @Legolas ?

 
This particular track @Legolas ?

Good flamenco music but I would have expected the recording "Flamenco fever" direct to disc. That is the meanest thing you can do to your system. Excessive levels will destroy your woofers.Flamenco Fever LP.jpg
 
What constitutes a horn? What about the Aries Cerat speaker. That looks to be a 6 or 8 inch driver in a transmission line. Is that a horn.
What about the Altec with the 1 to 2 x 12 inch drivers in a folded cabinet.
What about a single 12 in a ported box with a multicell on top?
What about a 12" open baffle driver set behind a 3" thick slab with a flared face?

How much material has to be in front of the driver to be considered a horn. And when does the port become a horn. As in the transmission line speaker. The large flared port appears to be a horn. But the sound is very directional from the cone driver in the face of the speaker. So is that a horn, or a speaker with a long port to extend the bass frequency.
It depends which Aries Cerat speaker you are referring to. The Symphonia uses an 8 inch high sensitivity driver in a backloaded folded horn for bass and midbass, a compression driver in a special zero diffraction horn for midrange and a horn loaded ribbon tweeter.
 
It depends which Aries Cerat speaker you are referring to. The Symphonia uses an 8 inch high sensitivity driver in a backloaded folded horn for bass and midbass, a compression driver in a special zero diffraction horn for midrange and a horn loaded ribbon tweeter.
Yes the symphonia. Remindes me of Voxativ before they lost their way and started using crossovers and multi driver.
 
This is all barely comprehensible, and it seems to me like useless rambling by a guy with a chip on his shoulder

I agree. It is useless and untethered rambling by an arrogant and insufferable guy who has little to contribute but finds himself entertaining.

It's easy to point the camera at oneself and engage in a stream of consciousness, meandering, incoherent monologue with no editing. But it's disrespectful to the viewers and a waste of their time.

Given Roman's difficulty being intelligible in spoken English he should take the time to write carefully in English and post his musings online.

Roman should cease making these interminable videos, and start a thread here on WBF to tell us about Vladimir Lamm and the ML2.
 
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Ok…except Symphonia is with crossovers and multi-way….
Yes,.I know. I was referring to the 8" driver in the folded horn. Voxativ had single full range design that looked similar. I never thought of the Voxativ single driver version as a horn. I thought of it as a single driver using that back loaded horn as a bass extension.
 
I agree. It is useless and untethered rambling by an arrogant and insufferable guy who has little to contribute but finds himself entertaining.

It's easy to point the camera at oneself and engage in a stream of consciousness, meandering, incoherent monologue with no editing. But it's disrespectful to the viewers and a waste of their time.

Given Roman's difficulty being intelligible in spoken English he should take the time to write carefully in English and post his musings online.

Roman should cease making these interminable videos, and start a thread here on WBF to tell us about Vladimir Lamm and the ML2.
Thank you for the good laugh. Your hubris brought me enjoyment tonight.
 
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I agree. It is useless and untethered rambling by an arrogant and insufferable guy who has little to contribute but finds himself entertaining.

It's easy to point the camera at oneself and engage in a stream of consciousness, meandering, incoherent monologue with no editing. But it's disrespectful to the viewers and a waste of their time.

Given Roman's difficulty being intelligible in spoken English he should take the time to write carefully in English and post his musings online.

Roman should cease making these interminable videos, and start a thread here on WBF to tell us about Vladimir Lamm and the ML2.

I would not expect Romy here anytime soon, he'd probably just get banned for calling you names.
 
I would not expect Romy here anytime soon, he'd probably just get banned for calling you names.
I don't care about being called names. I'm just baffled if the caller doesn't have any reason or basis for it.
 
On the other hand, will someone get banned for calling another member a name if he had a good explanation for it?
I don't know. I'm not involved in moderation.

It wouldn't bother me, personally.
 
I agree. It is useless and untethered rambling by an arrogant and insufferable guy who has little to contribute but finds himself entertaining.

It's easy to point the camera at oneself and engage in a stream of consciousness, meandering, incoherent monologue with no editing. But it's disrespectful to the viewers and a waste of their time.

Given Roman's difficulty being intelligible in spoken English he should take the time to write carefully in English and post his musings online.

Roman should cease making these interminable videos, and start a thread here on WBF to tell us about Vladimir Lamm and the ML2.

He seems to prefer Romy. Why keep referring to him as Roman? Would you like him to call you Ronald? Do you think this post is a good way to ask him to join WBF?

If you want to learn his thoughts about Vladimir and the ML2, you should simply visit his website where he has written many posts on the subject. He will not come here.
 
If you want to learn his thoughts about Vladimir and the ML2, you should simply visit his website where he has written many posts on the subject. He will not come here.

He is a walking contradiction. For example, he writes this on Salvatore (http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PageIndex=1&postID=24577#24577):

"Audio playback, at least the high end playback, is explicitly individualistic activity, serves only the person’s own objectives. There are no capstans, gurus, leaders or even needs for them, it is all bout own discoveries of how own inner-you reacts to external sonic sensation and how to make audio tools to serve this purpose."

Bla bla bla. Everyone is, by definition, giving their personal opinion on products. Does he articulate his own preferences? In the few videos I watched, there is in fact very little substance.

I really appreciate Salvatore's writings. I contacted him some time ago on a specific topic (of no interest here), and he replied with this interesting comment (among others):

"It now appears that the interest in the ideas, concepts and theories I discuss in my reviews will outlast the performance details of the actual components. This is not an accident. I’ve always believed the components are reference points only, which are still required to provide a common perspective, but not as important, in the long run, as the ideas..."

This is something we often forget.
 
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He is a walking contradiction. For example, he writes this on Salvatore (http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PageIndex=1&postID=24577#24577):

"Audio playback, at least the high end playback, is explicitly individualistic activity, serves only the person’s own objectives. There are no capstans, gurus, leaders or even needs for them, it is all bout own discoveries of how own inner-you reacts to external sonic sensation and how to make audio tools to serve this purpose."

Bla bla bla. Everyone is, by definition, giving their personal opinion on products. Does he articulate his own preferences? In the few videos I watched, there is in fact very little substance.

I really appreciate Salvatore's writings. I contacted him some time ago on a specific topic (of no interest here), and he replied with this interesting comment (among others):

"It now appears that the interest in the ideas, concepts and theories I discuss in my reviews will outlast the performance details of the actual components. This is not an accident. I’ve always believed the components are reference points only, which are still required to provide a common perspective, but not as important, in the long run, as the ideas..."

This is something we often forget.

Ron wrote that he hoped Romy would come here to share his thoughts about Vladimir Lamm and the ML2 amplifier. That suggests that Ron is interested in what Romy might say on those topics. I simply suggested to Ron that he could read about those topics on Romy’s website.

Your opinion about Romy does not change that. And yes, Romy does articulate his own preferences.
 
And yes, Romy does articulate his own preferences.

Saying that an audio system should be expressive is not saying much. As Salvatore explains: music is art, audio is science (not the other way around).
 
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