Natural Sound

[MadFloyd]

have you ever looked at the Ching Cheng catalog. They make hundreds of different power cords. Are you certain that yours are the same one David and many of us use

This is true. In fact, a mutual friend of Peter and I investigated whether these CC power cords could be obtained, did they still make them etc.

He was told they did and got a couple pairs. They look slightly different but he was told they are essentially the same.

It turns out they were not the same; they sounded very different.

 

[PeterA]

Mike, the fact that you wrote it, And claimed that it was just you having fun, but then you decided to immediately delete it, is quite telling. Do you enjoy having fun at other peoples expense? And in a system thread in which you barely participate except to make jabs. I really don’t get it.

I started this thread to share my enthusiasm for a new system that quite frankly is fairly unique and would be difficult to replicate. I thought people would be interested in the story. It is a bookend to my other system thread with the transition of the visit to Utah thread in the middle. My intent was to share with the hope that some people would find it interesting.

 

[Mikem53]

Is it possible that criticism of the Ching Cheng power cords might have some validity? Did you notice that they were OEM with your Pass Labs equipment, as they were with Oppo and any number of other brands? When I went through my collection of power cords that have come with various components (some audio, some computer, some video) I found 9 Ching Cheng cords of what appear to be 3 different types. Food for thought?

Of course all rooms need "treatment", even if it is not via commercial products. Whether normal furnishings such as rugs, carpet, furniture, drapes, etc. work as well as purpose built products is another question.

Nelson pass voices his amps with the supplied power Cable.

 

[Steve williams]

This is true. In fact, a mutual friend of Peter and I investigated whether these CC power cords could be obtained, did they still make them etc.

He was told they did and got a couple pairs. They look slightly different but he was told they are essentially the same.

It turns out they were not the same; they sounded very different.

FWIW my Lamm Signature series amps, preamp and phono stage also came with Ching Cheng PC's but even they too are different from the ones David has

IIRC as a starter his are 14 AWG whereas Lamm's PC's were 16 AWG

 

[Lampie519]

US20130140059A1 - Spin-current effect in carbon coated conductors - Google Patents

 

[rbbert]

FWIW my Lamm Signature series amps, preamp and phono stage also came with Ching Cheng PC's but even they too are different from the ones David has

IIRC as a starter his are 14 AWG whereas Lamm's PC's were 16 AWG

8 of my 9 are 14 AWG, one is 16 AWG.
Pass merely claims the supplied cords meet all legislative requirements for the country where the product is sold.

 

[Steve williams]

8 of my 9 are 14 AWG, one is 16 AWG.
Pass merely claims the supplied cords meet all legislative requirements for the country where the product is sold.

The wire gauge is just for starters as the one we use has many different features

 

[rbbert]

This is true. In fact, a mutual friend of Peter and I investigated whether these CC power cords could be obtained, did they still make them etc.

He was told they did and got a couple pairs. They look slightly different but he was told they are essentially the same.

It turns out they were not the same; they sounded very different.

ddk told me he had to buy 1000, they were not available in smaller quantities. Perhaps he can contribute more details?

 

[rbbert]

The wire gauge is just for starters as the one we use has many different features

Such as? David PM'ed me that there was nothing special about them, they were simply well-made cords and connectors.

 

[Steve williams]

ddk told me he had to buy 1000, they were not available in smaller quantities. Perhaps he can contribute more details?

That's correct. David thought them to be so good that he bought a huge number of them many years ago. I'm not even certain that CC makes this PC anymore. David was correct in what he told you but what he didn't tell you is which model he uses. I use 9 or 10 of his in my system. I have many audiophile friends who also use his CC PC's and they as well used expensive PC's previously

 

[bazelio]

Such as? David PM'ed me that there was nothing special about them, they were simply well-made cords and connectors.

Just buy a few from David. If he'll sell to you. The picture I remember seeing in the Ching Ching site at the time David sold the cords to me looked just like what David sent me. There is also a heavier gauge version of the same cord on the site, if I recall. I'm sure someone else in the world sells these if he decides not to sell to you.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike, the fact that you wrote it, And claimed that it was just you having fun, but then you decided to immediately delete it, is quite telling. Do you enjoy having fun at other peoples expense? And in a system thread in which you barely participate except to make jabs. I really don’t get it.

I started this thread to share my enthusiasm for a new system that quite frankly is fairly unique and would be difficult to replicate. I thought people would be interested in the story. It is a bookend to my other system thread with the transition of the visit to Utah thread in the middle. My intent was to share with the hope that some people would find it interesting.

when Steve explains why he responded to a post that had been deleted for at least 10 minutes already i will respond to you.

 

[PeterA]

Such as? David PM'ed me that there was nothing special about them, they were simply well-made cords and connectors.

Exactly. Perhaps that’s why people like them and think they sound so good. Just like the standard industrial wires I installed and tested from my panel to my outlets sound better than the fancy JPS labs in wall wire I was using for 20 years. Same with the industrial outlets I am using.

Well made cords and connectors are important.

 

[PeterA]

Nope. Nobody is coming forth to explain anything about the one you use, and I have specifically asked both you and David. It appears I have already done more research into this than you have, but I am happy to be further educated.

David’s power cords are basically no longer available. Have you considered that David simply doesn’t want to talk about them anymore?

You should put out a request to people who own them and see if anyone is willing to sell them to you? You might get lucky. They are cheap and you can listen to them for yourself and then make up your own mind. Be warned: they do not draw attention to themselves. They do not spotlight anything. They sound balanced and this is why they sound natural.

A friend of mine has a couple of them and I’ve been trying to buy them from him without luck.

 

[Lagonda]

David’s power cords are basically no longer available. Have you considered that David simply doesn’t want to talk about them anymore?

You should put out a request to people who own them and see if anyone is willing to sell them? You might get lucky. They are cheap and you can listen to them for yourself and then make up your own mind. Be warned: they do not draw attention to themselves. They do not spotlight anything.

A friend of mine has a couple of them and I’ve been trying to buy them from him without luck.

Bazelio has a few he is not using, maybe he is willing to sell his at a fair price !

 

[bazelio]

Bazelio has a few he is not using, maybe he is willing to sell his at a fair price !

 

[ddk]

when Steve explains why he responded to a post that had been deleted for at least 10 minutes already i will respond to you.

Who's really the chicken here Mike, this crap is yours own it! You think was over the top? You barge in and your opening post is tell Peter in HIS thread that he has a cult and people are justified to be pricks. Where do you get off saying anything like this to anyone? It's the cult of what Mike? It's a simple basic analog system, Turntable, Tube Electronics and a pair of Horn Speakers and that's a cult to you? What really get's me isn't your self righteous arrogance but you're the guy who regularly holds court to show off some new acquisition and tell the minions how ultimate it is, of course until the next chachki and shaky table you shove in with the rest of them. You know how easy it is to come in your thread and rain in your parade with all the dumb things you claim, not to mention exposing you for the shill you are for some of this gear? You're lucky that we're not like you!

david

 

[PeterA]

With this new system I find that I am listening to music differently than I did before. My records are stored up on the third floor of my house away from the listening room. I usually bring down three or four records to listen to in an evening. It was often a mix of jazz and classical or large scale and small scale etc. I would usually listen to one or two sides of 45 RPMs and then one side of a few different standard LPs.

I find this routine has changed. I now bring down music of a certain genre, perhaps an evening of jazz, or an evening of chamber or orchestra. Sometimes only choral music. And instead of just listening to one side of a record and then moving onto something else, I am now much more likely to listen to both sides of an LP or the entire symphony.

Even though there are no independent reports of what my system sounds like besides that early one from my friend Ian, this change in listening habits seems to imply something about my new system and my connection to the music I choose to play on it.

I am now listening about equally to the Tecnics moving magnet and to the lower output Colibrí moving coil cartridge. At some point I will get around to posting some more videos, but right now I’m just trying to find the time to listen to more music.

 

[microstrip]

At this point it is really wierd. Aside from the nomal offtrack wanderings and "congratulations on your journey" posts, there is a lot of crying and complaining about the phrase "natural sound" and its use as your thread title.

Tim,

Please separate waters. People debate "Natural Sound" as sound reproduction concept. Unfortunately, even people who promote it do not even agree on how to identify it, calling it just natural, natural sound and now mixing it with the name of thread. A lot of confusion shows and something that is ambiguous becomes even more ambiguous and less defined.

What do you expect at the audio salon?

There is a certain 'sense' that several feel either threatened or insulted by the effort to characterize or classify a type of sound. Some think the exercise is arrogant. Maybe some feel the phrase "natural sound" co-opts too much or something they hold dear but do not label as such. Some dismiss the effort as your description of what you like and giving it a fancy name.

Lot's of smoke, little heat.

I would like to know who felt threatened by this thread. IMHO people are here to communicate and discuss high-end and have some fun. Are we here to debate audio matters or to analyze the pseudo-intentions and feelings of our members?

My perspective is different - we are really discussing "Natural Sound". Member posts were mainly valid contributions , not smoke.

Then there are the kibitzers.

I don't say there is a lot of disagreement because very little opposing view is offered, at least one that has much rationale behind it. Plenty of bellyaching about the notion of "natural sound" with scant original thinking or positive ideas for some alternative. The proxy for that, though itself not contributory, is to complain about the use of 'HiFi' as characterizing sound that is less than natural. I have yet to see a well thought out explication of what 'high fidelity' means to those who choose it in opposition. (Were that to happen tournment grounds might be in its own thread, but like or not things are playing out here.)

IMHO just your very biased perspective of the discussion ...

If you want to understand natural sound don't go to an audio forum, go to a concert hall.

Efforts to conceptualize and clarify a certain approach to system building and assessment over the past few years here at WBF has led some of us to the point where we are now. I've said many times that the phrase "natural sound" does not have the explanatory power to stand on its own - at least for those encountering it without the background of what we've gone through. David and I may have small differences here - that's okay. I come to the notion from the angle of using live acoustic music as one's reference or guide when assessing system goals and results. . However, having participated in discussion here, I accept "natural sound" as a shortcut to both a concept and an actual stereo listening experience.

Well some real progress in this paragraph. Steve says we should go to Utah, you advise us to go to a concert hall.

Anyway sorry, the concept still does not exist. Besides David and Peter, we still do not know what other systems are "Natural Sound" . Should we make a poll?

I think Peter accepts that but might say it differently. For all the pam-ing from others, Peter actually lays out his thoughts about what he hear's from a system he finds natural sounding. I've yet to see this from others, the 'hi-fi-ers' as it were.

No need to lay them here - thousands of posts in WBF describe the preferences of most of many of our members. Thousands of existing reviews showing that diversity of preference is a key point in the high-end. BTW, what is the point of nicknaming the people who disagree with you?

 

[cal3713]

With this mew system I find that I am listening to music differently than I did before. My records are stored up on the third floor of my house away from the listening room. I usually bring down three or four records to listen to in an evening. It was often a mix of jazz and classical or large scale and small scale etc. I would usually listen to one or two sides of 45 RPMs and then one side of a few standard LPs.

I now find this routine has changed. I now bring down music of a certain genre, perhaps an evening of jazz, or an evening of chamber or orchestra. Sometimes only choral music. And instead of just listening to one side of record and then moving onto something else, I am now much more likely to listen to both sides of an LP or the entire symphony.

Even though there are no independent reports of what my system sounds like besides that early one from my friend Ian, this change in listening habits seems to imply something about my new system and my connection to the music I choose to play on it.

I am now listening about equally to the Tecnics moving magnet and to the Colibrí moving coil cartridges. At some point I will get around to posting some more videos, but right now I’m just trying to find the time to listen to more music.

If you are listening to more music, you have won. Congrats Peter.