Natural Sound

[ddk]

But here comes the rub, Dave. I also know the ultimate sound comes from horns. I'm also a natural sound afficionado as well (I'd just use a different strap line as a descriptor). I know from the two examples of horns that have spoken to me, that the deeper communication conveyed just can't be approximated by the best box spkrs demos I've heard (highly optimised Rockport Hyperion and Kharma Exquisite demos on Ypsilon SET100s and Tenor OTLs), or a close parallel universe on Apogee Divas which seem to get close to the real thing, but still do HiFi more than Real/Natural.
But knowing horns absolutely tug at my heart, some horns fall just short, many fall at the first hurdle.
And thus, a major conundrum exists. It makes more sense to find a box spkr with a uniform set of positives, hopefully SET-friendly as well, than a flawed horn design.

If speakers are what you’ve identified as what will get you there, then it’s a easy fix but you should remember those two speakers that spoke to you were part of system and it was the whole that impressed you and not just one part.

david

 

[PeterA]

It always seems to come back around to Marc sharing his system sound, changes, tweaks and speakers. He is sharing all of that in his usual way on his own thread. Why discuss it here?

 

[Al M.]

The assumption is that people start off knowing what they want or the meaning of any of those labels, IME that’s not true. What I find is the exact opposite, most don’t even realize that there’s a “natural sound” or whatever label you want to use. Typically people hunt for new equipment tweaking parts of their system without an overall picture or direction and that’s the vast majority, please read your own process. This isn’t a knock on anyone, it’s a fact.

davidu

That's my impression as well. Many audiophiles don't seem to really know what they want, what their reference should be, and seem to get blown into a new direction whenever they hear another sound, and in the process go from change to change, often sideways.

 

[PeterA]

Well, that's a point, isn't it? Noone sets out to get an Unnatural Sound. Maybe some accidentally end up that way...although I can't see them starting a thread on it Lol.
I guess that does leave a few labels remaining.
Beautiful Sound.
Beguiling Sound.
Unforgettable Sound.
Etc...all of these equally attractive as destinations, again, noone would be looking for anything other than these at home.

I am looking for something other than that at home. I don’t want my sound to always be beautiful, or beguiling, or unforgettable. This is exactly what I am trying to avoid.

 

[spiritofmusic]

It always seems to come back around to Marc sharing his system sound, changes, tweaks and speakers. He is sharing all of that in his usual way on his own thread. Why discuss it here?

I'm fair game for criticism Peter, but try and be accurate. I didn't highlight my system once in recent posts. Even David didn't tell me, Seinfeld-style, "ya know, Spirit, yada yada yada!". And I won't mention my system or choices ever again in your thread. You need to complain about me more relevantly Lol.

 

[spiritofmusic]

If speakers are what you’ve identified as what will get you there, then it’s a easy fix but you should remember those two speakers that spoke to you were part of system and it was the whole that impressed you and not just one part.

david

Absolutely David. One listens to a system holistically as much as the horns themselves in these setups...whether the end result is good OR poor.

 

[morricab]

Absolutely David. One listens to a system holistically as much as the horns themselves in these setups...whether the end result is good OR poor.

No system is perfect so it will always need a holistic approach to get a realistic sound

 

[PeterA]

That's my impression as well. Many audiophiles don't seem to really know what they want, what their reference should be, and seem to get blown into a new direction whenever they hear another sound, and in the process go from change to change, often sideways.

Al, this is the reason I started the thread: to share my new system and describe the sound I am trying to get at home. I tried to define that sound by listing certain characteristics I think systems that have this sound share on common.

It would be great if others shared what their goals are in their own system threads as clearly as they know how. Often we get nice photos of expensive gear but no explanation of how that gear gets them closer to the sound they want. Sure it is better. I want to know how and why they think it is better and what the end goal is.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I'm afraid Peter, your thread is the only system thread in town. Micro Seiki, Lamm, vintage corner horns, Dave's know how...the only one that is of major interest, the heated opinions is evidence of that surely, and 1k posts already.
I know of a system thread not a million miles away from me that is just the owner and tumbleweed for company, poor bastard Lol.

 

[Lagonda]

I'm fair game for criticism Peter, but try and be accurate. I didn't highlight my system once in recent posts. Even David didn't tell me, Seinfeld-style, "ya know, Spirit, yada yada yada!". And I won't mention my system or choices ever again in your thread. You need to complain about me more relevantly Lol.

Marc has improved over the last couple of month, he mostly holds back the urge to list his system these days ! OK, he slips once in a while, but not often

 

[Lagonda]

I'm afraid Peter, your thread is the only system thread in town. Micro Seiki, Lamm, vintage corner horns, Dave's know how...the only one that is of major interest, the heated opinions is evidence of that surely, and 1k posts already.
I know of a system thread not a million miles away from me that is just the owner and tumbleweed for company, poor bastard Lol.

Now, now Marc ! I alway read your system thread and try to give constructive criticism. You are not all alone !

 

[bonzo75]

Now, now Marc ! I alway read your system thread and try to give constructive criticism. You are not all alone !

It takes two to tango

 

[Lampie519]

It takes two to tango

No tango here, more a resemblance of a polka

 

[Lagonda]

It takes two to tango

I am not sure Tango agrees !

 

[Lampie519]

I am not sure Tango agrees

In this case i apologize !

 

[christoph]

It takes two to tango

And WITH tango it would be a threesome

 

[spiritofmusic]

Apologies to Tang, didn't mean to omit his thread. However his vinyl is almost as pricey as Peter's new system, it's deffo the software w him.
One day I suppose Peter will get to a point on his thread where he simply posts videos on vinyl takes.

 

[Gregm]

If speakers are what you’ve identified as what will get you there, then it’s a easy fix but you should remember those two speakers that spoke to you were part of system and it was the whole that impressed you and not just one part.

david

No doubt that speakers sare part of a system that imparts sound -- yet I find (empirically) that speakers, along with sources, affect the sound quite definitively. I think we can easily and dramatically change the sound of our systems simply by changing the type of speaker.

Take horns for example. Any horn sporting drivers with high magnetic flux -- Lowther, AER, top end Supravox or Fostex etc -- offer explosive dynamics and microdynamics and reveal details galore. Hardly "relaxing" but, nonetheless, close to what is on the source medium. These are so efficient that the slightest modulation is converted into audible sound.
Anyone used to that kind of reproduction might well find conventional box speakres a tad flat. Conversely, horns could sound edgy to people used to a regular dynamic pair of speakers -- it certainly did in my case -- albeit, the magic of details suddenly audible and dynamics was unparalleled (it was a diy based on Lowther DX-4s)

 

[bonzo75]

Agree on most points except that horns sounding edgy is more of a system or speaker issue.

The speaker should drive the amplifier choice

 

[Lampie519]

albeit, the magic of details suddenly audible and dynamics was unparalleled (it was a diy based on Lowther DX-4s)

Yes, i also found Lowthers to be very dyamic and unparalleled..... unitl i head a direct driven full range ESL. That blew everything i heard away and i mean everything.... i was hooked for life....