Natural Sound

[Gregm]

Agree on most points except that horns sounding edgy is more of a system or speaker issue.

The speaker should drive the amplifier choice

Speaking of edgy (usually a speaker issue, I agree), i.e. big bumps & rises upwards of 3-4kHz+, they are easily tamed with a dsp palced between source & dac.

Yes, i also found Lowthers to be very dyamic and unparalleled..... unitl i head a direct driven full range ESL. That blew everything i heard away and i mean everything.... i was hooked for life....

I think I know what you mean -- I used to have active stats called Audio Exklusiv and they could sound magical -- when they worked. Unfortunately the amps would often +go kaput . it was a bit like old Ferraris: when they worked, rarely, it was a great driving experience!

 

[bonzo75]

Never heard a good DSP in horns

 

[christoph]

Agree on most points except that horns sounding edgy is more of a system or speaker issue.

The speaker should drive the amplifier choice

Or vice versa
It has to work both ways to sound good

 

[morricab]

No doubt that speakers sare part of a system that imparts sound -- yet I find (empirically) that speakers, along with sources, affect the sound quite definitively. I think we can easily and dramatically change the sound of our systems simply by changing the type of speaker.

Take horns for example. Any horn sporting drivers with high magnetic flux -- Lowther, AER, top end Supravox or Fostex etc -- offer explosive dynamics and microdynamics and reveal details galore. Hardly "relaxing" but, nonetheless, close to what is on the source medium. These are so efficient that the slightest modulation is converted into audible sound.
Anyone used to that kind of reproduction might well find conventional box speakres a tad flat. Conversely, horns could sound edgy to people used to a regular dynamic pair of speakers -- it certainly did in my case -- albeit, the magic of details suddenly audible and dynamics was unparalleled (it was a diy based on Lowther DX-4s)

Lowthers have so many problems with huge breakup and very spiky highs (as much as 20db above the mids) that I would not be surprised if you were disappointed with "edginess" of the sound...I find them this way as well...unless the whizzers are cut off and they are used as midranges like in Horning speakers.

Agree with you regarding the dynamics...this is why my second system uses a Supravox 215-2000 (the ALNICO version that is 99db) for the mib/bass (loaded in TQWT) and a Beyma CD/Horn for the tweeter. No harshness and measures very smooth right up to 20Khz (some smooth roll off above 12Khz).

 

[morricab]

Yes, i also found Lowthers to be very dyamic and unparalleled..... unitl i head a direct driven full range ESL. That blew everything i heard away and i mean everything.... i was hooked for life....

Have to hear that someday...always wanted to get a pair of Acoustat X or Acoustat IV that were both direct drive originally.

 

[Lampie519]

I used to have active stats called Audio Exklusiv

Pütz was the name of the guy who made these ESL's. I used to service many Acoustat amps (same design just better build quality). I think when they worked they were as good as any direct driven ESL (great!). 25 years ago i designed my amps as i was scared that one day they would break and at that time i had no access to internet so the world was much smaller so to speak.

 

[morricab]

Or vice versa
It has to work both ways to sound good

I went to horns to optimize the sound of my SETs!

 

[morricab]

Pütz was the name of the guy who made these ESL's. I used to service many Acoustat amps (same design just better build quality). I think when they worked they were as good as any direct driven ESL (great!). 25 years ago i designed my amps as i was scared that one day they would break and at that time i had no acssess to internet so the world was much smaller so to speak.

Do you have Beveridge model 2s?

 

[Lampie519]

Have to hear that someday...always wanted to get a pair of Acoustat X or Acoustat IV that were both direct drive originally.

There is always coffee at my place (or something cold )

 

[Lampie519]

Do you have Beveridge model 2s?

Yes, i have 2 set's model 2. One set is in very bad shape though. i also must have a model 3 somewhere but no space to store it...

 

[bonzo75]

Or vice versa
It has to work both ways to sound good

Sure no one is saying to take a not so good amp. There are more good amp choices than their are speaker choices. David drives his strategy on Lamms but he will never replace his Bionor with AG duos or unos just because the Lamm sounds good.

Now, if you have something like Pnoe you can choose a very low watt amp tube like the Mayer 46 but that will become less and less effective the more multiway you go and the more crossover you add.

 

[Lampie519]

Horning speakers

I loved the big Hornings ! He came over one day to my place long ago lol...

 

[Lampie519]

.always wanted to get a pair of Acoustat X or Acoustat IV

I had all versions, the Model IV is the best in this regard but even that is not enough so i stack some to have a more theatrical experience... I also added some ionic tweeters for some extra "air" (not air as Ozon btw lol)

 

[christoph]

Have to hear that someday...always wanted to get a pair of Acoustat X or Acoustat IV that were both direct drive originally.

You sent me a link from a dutch outfit that offered a direct drive kit for the Acoustat Spectras, right?
If I could only find that again
Maybe @Lampie519 knows about that option as well

 

[Lampie519]

Yes, there was a DD amp and upgrade...
Twin OTL - Twinstatic Audio

It is a kind of competitor for me .... so we are not on speaking terms

For more info please PM me or we can start a different thread....

 

[christoph]

Sure no one is saying to take a not so good amp. There are more good amp choices than their are speaker choices. David drives his strategy on Lamms but he will never replace his Bionor with AG duos or unos just because the Lamm sounds good.

Now, if you have something like Pnoe you can choose a very low watt amp tube like the Mayer 46 but that will become less and less effective the more multiway you go and the more crossover you add.

Sure, but the Bionors are unicorns and therefore you have to find an amp that matches those unicorns.

But if you have a Thomas Mayer 46 amp you love, finding the suitable speaker is the goal.
I wonder how the TM 46 would sound on the Bionors

It depends from where you are coming and what the set (fixed) component is and from there you have to find the perfect match to go with

 

[bonzo75]

Sure, but the Bionors are unicorns and therefore you have to find an amp that matches those unicorns.

But if you have a Thomas Mayer 46 amp you love, finding the suitable speaker is the goal.
I wonder how the TM 46 would sound on the Bionors

It depends from where you are coming and what the set (fixed) component is and from there you have to find the perfect match to go with

The call then is TM 46 driving a single driver like pnoe sounding better than an amp that might be lesser than 46 on pnoe, but combining with a multiway

 

[morricab]

There is always coffee at my place (or something cold )

Looks like a trip to the Netherlands needs to be in the planning!

 

[tima]

The assumption is that people start off knowing what they want or the meaning of any of those labels, IME that’s not true. What I find is the exact opposite, most don’t even realize that there’s a “natural sound” or whatever label you want to use. Typically people hunt for new equipment tweaking parts of their system without an overall picture or direction and that’s the vast majority, please read your own process. This isn’t a knock on anyone, it’s a fact.

david

I think many people start out wanting to hear music well reproduced in their home. Then they become audiophiles, read magazines and forums and get all screwed up.

 

[the sound of Tao]

I think many people start out wanting to hear music well reproduced in their home. Then they become audiophiles, read magazines and forums and get all screwed up.

Lol