Natural Sound

[Lagonda]

You compare and contrast in the homes of others and then write about it. Those with their own systems enjoy them, play and experiment and improve and then share the results with others. You have a unique and interesting approach to the hobby. Some simply enjoy what they have and we never hear from them.

I also think that Ked's excellent reviews and his general development as a audiophile are limited by having heard only snapshots of other people's systems, maybe not always the best snapshot and not having developed these systems himself. A big part of the fun is the process of development, once he puts his own system together, he will realize it is not just putting the "best" drivers in the same speaker cabinet, or the "best" components in the same room that make a good system.

 

[jeff1225]

I am still trying to get my Black Shadows dialed in. Bias issues. Then bias bypass cap issues. Now that I pulled the top plate to really look, I find the input circuit is wired different in the 2 amps. WTF.

But every time I pull them out of my system and put my KT88 PP wilma circuit amps back in, I realize how much better the Black S are.

This all makes me wonder about SS. So now wirh Doug Schroeder's review of the Legacy iV2, and 2 friend having the amps and feeling they slay so many others, and only costing $4750, I'm circling the SS bowl once again. But for how good it may be, I still fear it won't have some pleasing set of distortion that makes music sound real to me. So I hang out on the fence.

You really need to try the SIT-3 on your system.

 

[Steve Williams]

This is where the love of gear take president over the purpose of the gear: to play music. When I get the Wall Street Journal on Sundays, fire up the Bose 901 mid-fi system and out on a jazz record, I’m not thinking about upgrading the sound.

I could be very happy with this system, my records and the KLAUDIO cleaner. It’s ultimately about music for me, and not gear.

the great divide..,,.some people use their system to listen to the music whereas other people play the music to listen to their system

 

[Lampie519]

the great divide..,,.some people use their system to listen to the music whereas other people play the music to listen to their system

Actually not so...
There are times i do listen to my system using music (evaluating the system) and after that i enjoy the system until a change has been made to the system...

This i think is standard procedure...

 

[christoph]

You are invited if you do not mind the "nutty professor's mess", i can compensate with good music and beverages

The Belgium Beer was MUCH better advertising than the Amstel urine
Sorry, Peter, this one I could not resist
Back on topic again, then

 

[Lampie519]

The Belgium Beer was MUCH better advertising than the Amstel urine

Didn't know there are some connoisseurs here paying attention
I will be more careful from now on

 

[morricab]

Didn't know there are some connoisseurs here paying attention
I will be more careful from now on

Yes, please watch yourself...I care too...

 

[Steve Williams]

Actually not so...
There are times i do listen to my system using music (evaluating the system) and after that i enjoy the system until a change has been made to the system...

This i think is standard procedure...

You missed the subtle meaning

 

[DaveC]

I've always thought of AG as the Bose of horn speakers. The older Unos were very similar to the Bose Acoustimass system in design ethos.

 

[wil]

Yet, you are now with very different sounding speakers. I know the Boenicke W13s quite well (heard them several times at Sven Boenicke's workshop). Very far from AG horns...is that because you found speakers that better match that Bakoon?

I found the 25 watt Bakoon 13r to be a minor revelation in their match with the Duo Mezzo's. I found it just relaxed their character without compromising the purity of the sound. I went back and forth between the Bakoon and LTA. The LTA was also great. It had more texture than the Bakoon (read: harmonic distortion) without the 300b bloom I grew tired of with the Luxman 300b.

My switch to Boenicke was more about just being ready for something besides horns. Big trade-off on effortless scale, but the Boenicke gives me hours on end of fatigue-free music involvement. With the AG's I always was very aware of the speakers. It was kind of like going from the exciting and neurotic girlfriend to the woman to raise a family with. (Sorry for the terrible analogy!)

 

[Lampie519]

You missed the subtle meaning

Again ?

 

[morricab]

I found the 25 watt Bakoon 13r to be a minor revelation in their match with the Duo Mezzo's. I found it just relaxed their character without compromising the purity of the sound. I went back and forth between the Bakoon and LTA. The LTA was also great. It had more texture than the Bakoon (read: harmonic distortion) without the 300b bloom I grew tired of with the Luxman 300b.

My switch to Boenicke was more about just being ready for something besides horns. Big trade-off on effortless scale, but the Boenicke gives me hours on end of fatigue-free music involvement. With the AG's I always was very aware of the speakers. It was kind of like going from the exciting and neurotic girlfriend to the woman to raise a. family with. (Sorry for the terrible analogy!)

Why do you assume more texture is due to distortion...real instruments have a lot of texture...

 

[morricab]

I found the 25 watt Bakoon 13r to be a minor revelation in their match with the Duo Mezzo's. I found it just relaxed their character without compromising the purity of the sound. I went back and forth between the Bakoon and LTA. The LTA was also great. It had more texture than the Bakoon (read: harmonic distortion) without the 300b bloom I grew tired of with the Luxman 300b.

My switch to Boenicke was more about just being ready for something besides horns. Big trade-off on effortless scale, but the Boenicke gives me hours on end of fatigue-free music involvement. With the AG's I always was very aware of the speakers. It was kind of like going from the exciting and neurotic girlfriend to the woman to raise a. family with. (Sorry for the terrible analogy!)

I know the Boenicke speakers well (we did a successful show with their little ones). The big ones you have make huge soundstage and the bass is tight and powerful...but the tonality is clearly sculpted based on how Sven thinks it should sound. That is not so bad because Sven hears better than most but you are still getting his flavor in the balance of the speaker for better or worse. I have no doubt the Bakoon works well with them.

Just to be clear though, I am not an apologist for AG, they are not my choice in horns. The Odeons I have are far better balanced, less biting and are fully horn loaded (no active box bass), An altogether more neutral and better integrated solution.

I can see why you might want a break from AG, I doubt I will ever part from my Odeons.

 

[bonzo75]

I also think that Ked's excellent reviews and his general development as a audiophile are limited by having heard only snapshots of other people's systems, maybe not always the best snapshot and not having developed these systems himself. A big part of the fun is the process of development, once he puts his own system together, he will realize it is not just putting the "best" drivers in the same speaker cabinet, or the "best" components in the same room that make a good system.

This is quite incorrect as I have been involved in system builds with neighbors whose stuff I get to see develop over the years. Also I get to see the component installed at their optimum and worse rather than a random audiophile buying used gears and setting half assed systems. I have actually heard the best drivers in the best systems with the best recordings and try to break apart a good system to see what works and what doesn't. So please read reviews carefully instead of these straw man arguments.

 

[Lagonda]

This is quite incorrect as I have been involved in system builds with neighbors whose stuff I get to see develop over the years. Also I get to see the component installed at their optimum and worse rather than a random audiophile buying used gears and setting half assed systems. I have actually heard the best drivers in the best systems with the best recordings and try to break apart a good system to see what works and what doesn't. So please read reviews carefully instead of these straw man arguments.

Wel i stand corrected, to me it looked like a lot of short visits with intense a/b comparisons with the intent of finding the "best" components in each category. I do like your openness to all topology's (except Zu ) very refreshing compared to the SET only crowd. But i think you are missing out on a lot of pleasure/pride of ownership and fun of developing your own system. It is nice to go out to gather appetite, but the well cooked meal at home is really good too. You search for perfection to the point of missing out on part of the fun.

 

[bonzo75]

This is where the love of gear take president over the purpose of the gear: to play music. When I get the Wall Street Journal on Sundays, fire up the Bose 901 mid-fi system and out on a jazz record, I’m not thinking about upgrading the sound.

I could be very happy with this system, my records and the KLAUDIO cleaner. It’s ultimately about music for me, and not gear.

The purpose of gear is gear.

There are like 6 concert halls in the vicinity. I had Southbank at 20 minutes walk from work, Barbican at 25, and wigmore at 1 hour. Not to mention three others, one of which I traveled regularly to Oxford and always caught a live concert on a holiday. Gear is to tweak. Unless one lives in those towns where there are no concerts. Plus, UK is subsidized tickets compared to US

 

[Lampie519]

There are like 6 concert halls in the vicinity. I had Southbank at 20 minutes walk from work, Barbican at 25, and wigmore at 1 hour. Not to mention three others, one of which I traveled regularly to Oxford and always caught a live concert on a holiday. Gear is to tweak. Unless one lives in those towns where there are no concerts

No concerts for over a year now ....

 

[bonzo75]

No concerts for over a year now ....

Sure hence the past tense. No trips either.

 

[Lampie519]

Sure hence the past tense. No trips either.

In that case i would build myself a "Japanese stereo set" a la 47 Lab...
Near field monitors and a MicroZotl kind of amp.... just the thought to be without.... brrrrr

 

[bonzo75]

Wel i stand corrected, to me it looked like a lot of short visits with intense a/b comparisons with the intent of finding the "best" components in each category. I do like your openness to all topology's (except Zu ) very refreshing compared to the SET only crowd. But i think you are missing out on a lot of pleasure/pride of ownership and fun of developing your own system. It is nice to go out to gather appetite, but the well cooked meal at home is really good too. You search for perfection to the point of missing out on part of the fun.

That was never the case. Many of my reports are of multiple visits, chasing components in different set ups, planning revisits and what to compare. Many of the set ups are done by those experts at setting it up so I get to see a component optimized (as well as broken) And there are still many experts in the pipeline. This is not rocket science. Listening is easy once set up if you follow a process. Most people just don't know what to play for audition and have too many preconceived notions before listening, but the listening part is actually easy.

Keep in mind I was one of the earliest on Lampi which is the most loved digital, and was talking about the vdh Stradivarius 1 year before David found it and introduced to Tang and it became famous on the forum. The tad 4003 is much better than a Cessaro driver and it is surprising to me most people haven't got it. The Altec woofers are recommended by JC and team. As I said, listening is easy you just need to find the people and listen and want to know what the component does rather than just come here and post random stuff to back a statement made with lesser knowledge. Set up requires sensibility. People get set up wrong because they are religious, like wanting to match the wrong component just because. 95 percent of the purchases in this forum are without listening, by following a review or a random stranger on the net who people decide to follow because they connect on some posts. Most people who own gear have never heard their component properly