Need advice on cables for full TAD setup
- Thread starter Ibragim
- Start date
Back in the 1990s Cite was a great steakhouse in NYC that ran a special on weekdays, $19.99 for an order of fries. And included was an 8oz filet. Benchmark should follow their example and charge $3,000 for their speaker cable (which is great, btw) and include an ABH2 with it.
I don’t understand why one gets such a strong reaction when the cable myth is challenged. And yes, I once had a full blown Spectral 2C3D system with all the MIT cables and ASC tube traps that cost as much as the Spectral gear. Been there, done that.
I just feel time is better spent with a more a science based process using neutral cables, like what you find in studios and concerts.
I don’t understand why one gets such a strong reaction when the cable myth is challenged. And yes, I once had a full blown Spectral 2C3D system with all the MIT cables and ASC tube traps that cost as much as the Spectral gear. Been there, done that.
I just feel time is better spent with a more a science based process using neutral cables, like what you find in studios and concerts.
The Sanders Magtech amplifiers also have fully regulated power supplies: https://sanderssoundsystems.com/products/amplifiers/magtech-monoblock-amp
The wires you see inside the R1 are not connected to the amplifier and those after the crossover face a much reduced bandwidth compared with the speaker cables. So the 14 gauge OFC zip cord argument has little value in this discussion. Philip Newell, professional known for his conservative views about the high-end addressed this issue in an article in HiFi Critic a few years ago.
Most people want to tune their systems with cables, as cables can do it without changing fundamental aspects such as frequency response, distortion or noise. A very reasonable approach IMHO. Unfortunately as pointed before, there is not time enough in life to listen to all cables and there are no simple recipes to have immediate success in this activity. It is important to have a strategy in this process or it will never converge to a proper result.
Although I strongly believe that well chosen cables can make a large difference in the sound quality of an audio system, as per my previous posts, I have much sympathy for those who decry the staggering inflation in cable (and other audio equipment) prices we have seen recently. To cite just one example, the new Nordost Odin Gold loudspeaker cable costs US$ 55,000 for an 1.5 meter pair. I, for one, will not go there. The price/performance ratio is starting to become "obscene". And, no, I have never heard this cable, so I may be expressing a "prejudice" myself here. From what I have seen, though, the habitués of the Audio Exotics forum in Hong Kong claim that the Nordost Odin Gold power cable beats every other contender out there by a very large margin!
For budget friendly cables that have quite a scientific pedigree, I suggest Iconoclast, designed by an ex Belden engineer with their support and highly complex machinery. Their low capacitance (or inductance- I forget) which is measured for each cable set, is lower than many other cables, and They sounded louder than other cables in my system.
The only reason I didn’t buy their speaker cables was at the time they only sold a minimum length of 10 feet, and since I run 4 sets of cables for each speaker from a monoblock, it wasn’t cost or space effective. They now sell custom lengths.
Other speakers cables I had to audition over the years were the AQ Wel signature @around $30k retail. After building a system around my CR1’s I didn’t have the funds for top cables and went with some very inexpensive signature cables from Underwood Hifi.
The only reason I didn’t buy their speaker cables was at the time they only sold a minimum length of 10 feet, and since I run 4 sets of cables for each speaker from a monoblock, it wasn’t cost or space effective. They now sell custom lengths.
Other speakers cables I had to audition over the years were the AQ Wel signature @around $30k retail. After building a system around my CR1’s I didn’t have the funds for top cables and went with some very inexpensive signature cables from Underwood Hifi.
The big problem with "tuning" via cables rather than simply selecting the most neutral cables is that cables are passive devices and there are clear tradeoffs in any deviation from neutral. For example, you want a warm cable, ok... it won't be as resolving and it will "smear" fine detail. There is absolutely no way around this. I use gold to add warmth in my high end ICs, I feel it's far better vs using copper but the price is higher and there is still a tradeoff. I do feel like a small amount of warmth is required in many system as recording studios generally use warm cables and so playback using a totally neutral system will deviate from what the artist intended, circle of confusion and all that... So I actually have three different high-end ICs depending on how much warmth you want!
I feel you're far better off with more neutral cables, clean AC power and choosing the source, amp and speakers from there. That said, it's super rare for anyone to actually do this. It seems like you select your gear using cheap, colored garbage cables with no regard to AC power and then you deal with the rest. The problem is it's all a SYSTEM and doing it that way isn't treating it as such. It's very common for folks to buy a system without regard to the cables and then, when they try neutral cables, they can hear issues with the system they previously didn't recognize.
I think one big issue is information overload and the fact people often can't recognize, understand or define what neutral is. The thought that the cables studios and live sound venues use are the definition of neutral is an example, and it's so common, Ron himself has said he wants to start with Mogami, which is very warm and reduces resolution to a shocking degree vs an actually neutral cable. IME such an IC cable alone can cripple a system.
I’d be curious to know what portion of the p&l of high end audio is made with cables, but if I had to guess, it’s probably quite a lot. This in turn drives advertising and that drives reviews.
Tuning your system with cables reminds me of putting aluminum foil rabbit ears on a TV antenna. Yes, it might improve reception, but it’s highly unpredictable and probably does not work for all stations. Maybe the right solution is you need an outside antena? Properly implemented room treatments and EQ (whether DSP or analogue using something like the Dangerous Music BAX EQ) would be more like the outside antena, a predictable and proven solution.
If your cables are having a such an impact on how your system sounds, then I would be concerned about what they are actually doing to the signal.
The two biggest factors will always be the speakers and the room. The room will have a huge impact on the sound, and all this can be measured and easily heard.
Tuning your system with cables reminds me of putting aluminum foil rabbit ears on a TV antenna. Yes, it might improve reception, but it’s highly unpredictable and probably does not work for all stations. Maybe the right solution is you need an outside antena? Properly implemented room treatments and EQ (whether DSP or analogue using something like the Dangerous Music BAX EQ) would be more like the outside antena, a predictable and proven solution.
If your cables are having a such an impact on how your system sounds, then I would be concerned about what they are actually doing to the signal.
The two biggest factors will always be the speakers and the room. The room will have a huge impact on the sound, and all this can be measured and easily heard.
Last edited:
Speaking of the R1, all three sections, woofer, mid and tweeter, have the exact same wiring. What’s the point of the article? That there is some sort of intermodulation distortion occurring when the bass and treble are running on the same cable so this requires a different type of expensive cable? That the bandwidth of the bass is somehow using up bandwidth that’s needed for the treble? That’s not how analogue signals work.
Anyways, my point is still not that cables don’t make a difference. Cables can make a difference, and there are good and bad cables out there. But the science behind making good cables at short lengths at audio frequencies has been known for many decades. It’s not difficult or exorbitantly expensive to make a great cable. And this has been the case for many years. If this were not true, then how were the fantastic recordings of the 1950s and 1960s done?
Perhaps I was not clear. Of course there are PA and studios using cheap/bad cables. But instead my question for you is are there examples of main stream high volume studios using exotic, hyper expensive cables? How many of them endorse this craziness that we see in HiFi?
Point is most don’t, and there are many fantastic recordings and live venues that sound great, all done with great, relatively inexpensive by audiophile standards, cables.
This is correct. Yes there are a few exceptions but the norm is cheap as chips cables in recording studios.
that said I once wired up a guys playback system in the A&R dept at EMI and he was shocked at the improvement. So the music industry has a heck of a lot of catching up to do high end wise. Ahmine have you seen the crap they evaluate on. Wow!
The NS10 is there so one can hear how the soundtrack would sound on a typical, not so great, stereo.
Cables make a difference but they are not the optimal tool for solving problems in overall sound balance. There are much better ways to do this.
It’s a shame how high end audio has moved away from science, engineering and professionalism, and towards snake oil marketing. This is particularly sad now that one can buy a calibrated microphone and install REW on a computer and measure a room with greater detail and accuracy than was previously possible even with many thousand of dollars of test equipment.
Most audio dealers know almost nothing about acoustics, electronics or mechanics. They throw around words like linearity, phase coherence, noise without understanding the science behind this. And then they sell you cables that cost 10 to 1000 times what they should cost. Instead they should come to your home, measure your room, check your power and understand what is really happening in your space. Then perhaps they could make some productive suggestions.
Last edited:
Katz's Corner: The Great Headphone Shootout - Part 3
This story originally appeared at InnerFidelity.comOn Friday, three days before the Headphone Slutz group meeting, I received my demo headphones from the Cable Company. The Xs and the 3s they sent are in mint condition, in perfect physical shape. The demo 3s are the newest model with Fazors and...
www.stereophile.com
Bob Katz has made some of the best sounding recordings of all time. He uses exclusively Mogami AES cable for all analogue and digital. I’m currently using Canare Star Quad cables terminated by Benchmark. Bryston also makes great cables using Gotham wire. It is also important to use great connectors and make sure the soldering is top notch. It’s easy to get this all custom made at the highest quality levels these days.
Last edited:
 | Steve Williams Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator |  | Ron Resnick Site Co-Owner | Administrator |  | Julian (The Fixer) Website Build | Marketing Managersing |