That actually makes sense. I was thinkinng L1 and not C1 wherein as stated bits get shaved at the lower volume settings.My bad
With their recommendation you will indeed be using the C1 volume control in its optimal range So cool right? Yeah!
New convert to CH Precision - advice needed
- Thread starter Derekw14
- Start date
That actually makes sense. I was thinkinng L1 and not C1 wherein as stated bits get shaved at the lower volume settings.My bad
With their recommendation you will indeed be using the C1 volume control in its optimal range So cool right? Yeah!
Steve Williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
why do bits get shaved at lower volumes. Was that intentional on the part of the manufacturer and if so, for what purpose
Arghhh, don't get me started in thinking about the M1, please!!!
That's kind of a separate thread, but yes, I know about both the Lampi Pac and Herve's new 108 v2.
Very interested to read the notes from the event at Dtz where both were played together.
The GG is the best DAC I heard (until the C1...) and I still love the 108 amplifier as per my initial post. Am also a huge fan of Herve, as true gentleman.
Would love to hear them, especially playing together which I have always thought would make a killer combo.
So what are your impressions on the Pac vs the upgraded GG1? Does it retain the GG1 sweetness and fantastic musicality, but extends it further?
That's kind of a separate thread, but yes, I know about both the Lampi Pac and Herve's new 108 v2.
Very interested to read the notes from the event at Dtz where both were played together.
The GG is the best DAC I heard (until the C1...) and I still love the 108 amplifier as per my initial post. Am also a huge fan of Herve, as true gentleman.
Would love to hear them, especially playing together which I have always thought would make a killer combo.
So what are your impressions on the Pac vs the upgraded GG1? Does it retain the GG1 sweetness and fantastic musicality, but extends it further?
The volume control is a hybrid Stevie. I'm not sure exactly why but it must have been about space within the Chassis. The volume controls of CH are strange beasts. On the L1, it uses discreet ladders, whatever that means, and to top it all off has a 20Bit DAC just to steer the signal along these multiple pathways while the signal remains in the analog domain at all times. I really don't understand how this works but can attest that the consistency is much greater than the normal trim pots across different SPLs.
In the first few hours of use, old habits are to the owner's detriment. I had to unlearn some. At first I would crank it based on habits I have with my other numerical display pres like my Aesthetix and BAT only to find I can dial things way back. Typical problem we've all experienced with really quiet gear I suppose. Doesn't take much to make music come alive. There's little to no hash in the lower volume settings.
In the first few hours of use, old habits are to the owner's detriment. I had to unlearn some. At first I would crank it based on habits I have with my other numerical display pres like my Aesthetix and BAT only to find I can dial things way back. Typical problem we've all experienced with really quiet gear I suppose. Doesn't take much to make music come alive. There's little to no hash in the lower volume settings.
LoL
Just had to throw in the M1. It is a beast!
Yes, the Pac is all that and the day it leaves I will be in tears. Tubes are different in ranking in the Pac and the GG in my system. The 242 is much better for me in the Pac. The Anniv Globe for me was the KING in my GG. The Pac is all you like about the GG and more. Immediately cold out of the box, it is more detailed, but still natural and never dry or etched. Quite simply, its a sonic monster.
The new 108M2 isd more akin sonically to the NHB-458. I have not heard the new 468, so cant say and I dont recall the old 108 either, but I did hear it last time there a year or 2 ago.
If you ever come to Gva, maybe we line up Herve beforehand to demo the 108/m2 with at least the GG. If the Demo Pac is around, we can do that too.
And Yes, both Herve and Florian are real gentlemen!
Elliott, yes I did try the A1:
- in monaural, that I thought improved spaciousness and separation vs. a a1 stereo, but also sounded a little "thin" on body/flesh
- the bridge mode seemed to combine this spaciousness and separation with a more robust, vivid tone (that the A1 is very good at in single/stereo mode, but not offering the same space and resolution).
Then again, these components are so chameleon like and seem to continue to evolve so much in my system (burn in? they've been on continuously for almost two week by now!) that I probably ought to retest it to be sure. Florian from CHP was surprised bridge mode was beneficial with my speakers.
- in monaural, that I thought improved spaciousness and separation vs. a a1 stereo, but also sounded a little "thin" on body/flesh
- the bridge mode seemed to combine this spaciousness and separation with a more robust, vivid tone (that the A1 is very good at in single/stereo mode, but not offering the same space and resolution).
Then again, these components are so chameleon like and seem to continue to evolve so much in my system (burn in? they've been on continuously for almost two week by now!) that I probably ought to retest it to be sure. Florian from CHP was surprised bridge mode was beneficial with my speakers.
Which tubes did you roll in the GG? Heihei compared the CH to the GG (and the vivaldi) at his place, and then bought the GG
Dear Steph,
welcome.
What i can tell you now is that you are in a big trouble,because also i started like you listening D1,C1 A1 mono and i bought C1 and A1 mono using Transport of my Wadia S71
I was very very happy like you but then i bought also X1 L1 P1 M1 mono after listening in my system,and CH are very clever to let you develop the system when you can.
I listen music with tube since 1978 with Hal amp,ARC D 90B,sp8,sp10,Jadisecc ecc and from 1992 with top triode tube like Yamamura,AudioTekne,ANJ,Kondo,Dissanayake,MActone otl,FAL,Shindo
until 2015.
I never liked a lot SS because i loved triode amp,mainly with 2A3.
The shop of my friend had TAD R1,Wilson and Rockport Cygnus and had in shop Pass XS and XS 300,Esoteric Grandioso amp and pre,Pandora and Mephisto,Rowland 925,and other and i also listen Constellation,all good sound but not for me.
One day there was a demo in this shop with Wilson and CH D1 C1 and A1 mono
I was shocked,i don't like a lot Wilson,but i listening a very good sound,clean,fast,detailed but sweet,deep bass and fast and i was very surprised.
I brought home CH and compared to my Kondo KSL M7 and 2 Souga and i liked more,founding same natural sound and tone of mid but with more details,aire,deep bass,dynamic and infinite power,that shocked me and i bought
After i tried X1 with C1 and sound was more dense,natural and deep with more space between instrument and then i bought L1,an other good step increasing a little better of everything.
So i suggest when you can try X1
In future you can think to try also L1.
In X1 i have 2 board,one for L1 and one for P1,in future i want to buy a second X1 without board because i have 2
I tried M1 mono vs A1 mono in my system,i had both.
Sound is similar because amp are exactly same,only difference is big trans in M1 and 1 or 2 transistor more,i don't remember,but with M1 the sound come out easily,scene is bigger and deeper and instrument are bigger,so seems more natural and liquid and sound go out from speaker seems without stress
I tried M1 on bass and mid with passive biamp and A1 mono on tweeter ( i can triamp my speaker) but i listened instrunmet out for tweeter smaller,while putting M1 on mid high was correct
so i sold A1 to my friend
But enjoy your system
Gianluigi
welcome.
What i can tell you now is that you are in a big trouble,because also i started like you listening D1,C1 A1 mono and i bought C1 and A1 mono using Transport of my Wadia S71
I was very very happy like you but then i bought also X1 L1 P1 M1 mono after listening in my system,and CH are very clever to let you develop the system when you can.
I listen music with tube since 1978 with Hal amp,ARC D 90B,sp8,sp10,Jadisecc ecc and from 1992 with top triode tube like Yamamura,AudioTekne,ANJ,Kondo,Dissanayake,MActone otl,FAL,Shindo
until 2015.
I never liked a lot SS because i loved triode amp,mainly with 2A3.
The shop of my friend had TAD R1,Wilson and Rockport Cygnus and had in shop Pass XS and XS 300,Esoteric Grandioso amp and pre,Pandora and Mephisto,Rowland 925,and other and i also listen Constellation,all good sound but not for me.
One day there was a demo in this shop with Wilson and CH D1 C1 and A1 mono
I was shocked,i don't like a lot Wilson,but i listening a very good sound,clean,fast,detailed but sweet,deep bass and fast and i was very surprised.
I brought home CH and compared to my Kondo KSL M7 and 2 Souga and i liked more,founding same natural sound and tone of mid but with more details,aire,deep bass,dynamic and infinite power,that shocked me and i bought
After i tried X1 with C1 and sound was more dense,natural and deep with more space between instrument and then i bought L1,an other good step increasing a little better of everything.
So i suggest when you can try X1
In future you can think to try also L1.
In X1 i have 2 board,one for L1 and one for P1,in future i want to buy a second X1 without board because i have 2
I tried M1 mono vs A1 mono in my system,i had both.
Sound is similar because amp are exactly same,only difference is big trans in M1 and 1 or 2 transistor more,i don't remember,but with M1 the sound come out easily,scene is bigger and deeper and instrument are bigger,so seems more natural and liquid and sound go out from speaker seems without stress
I tried M1 on bass and mid with passive biamp and A1 mono on tweeter ( i can triamp my speaker) but i listened instrunmet out for tweeter smaller,while putting M1 on mid high was correct
so i sold A1 to my friend
But enjoy your system
Gianluigi
Grazie mille Ginaluigi. I can already feel I am in big trouble!
From the advice (from CHP) and feedback (from this forum) I received so far, X1 for my C1 seems the way to go ... and it's also the (relatively!) more "affordable" option.
L1 may bring something more, but Florian's opinion was that it was not the first priority.
After the X1, he seems to advise to go for the T1, which sonic improvement is apparently very substantial.
After that, one day I may spring for the P1 (I listen to vinyls, but less often than digital) ...
As to the M1, and as you recommend in monoblocks!!! I refuse to even consider it
Ciao!
Steph
From the advice (from CHP) and feedback (from this forum) I received so far, X1 for my C1 seems the way to go ... and it's also the (relatively!) more "affordable" option.
L1 may bring something more, but Florian's opinion was that it was not the first priority.
After the X1, he seems to advise to go for the T1, which sonic improvement is apparently very substantial.
After that, one day I may spring for the P1 (I listen to vinyls, but less often than digital) ...
As to the M1, and as you recommend in monoblocks!!! I refuse to even consider it
Ciao!
Steph
Elliot G.
Industry Expert
Me too
Make sure you play a little with the feedback as some speakers respond very favorable to a little and it looks like you did play with the gain that works as well.
Enjoy they are an amazing company and make incredible products that also work like a CHamp LOL
Steph, welcome to WBF and congratulations on purchasing a CH Precision system. I’ve been a CH Precision system owner since December 2016. I started with a D1, C1, A1, and an X1 powering both the D1 and C1 (2 boards installed). Today I have a full CH system consisting of D1,C1,P1,L1,M1,(3)X1. You have received advice from other WBF members (including my close friend ARNIES) and from Florian himself! I offer my 2 cents from my experiences. I agree with adding an X1 next. Consider having two boards in the X1 and power the D1 and C1 from a single X1. This will add weight, realism, space, to the presentation and likely will add that small missing ingredient for which you are searching. If you choose to power just one component with an X1 at this time then the C1 is the priority. Two other notes: I’ve done a lot of listening to the CH provided digital filters and I prefer the “Minimum Phase” filter. This would be my recommendation for both the PCM and DSD filter types in C1 settings. Point two is to make sure that your “clock source” in the C1 settings is set to “Internal Clock” for your CH-Link and USB inputs. Your D1 “clock source” setting should be “Synchro BNC 75ohms”. You likely have all of this correct but it makes a difference in the sound presentation.
I too am a lifetime Roon subscriber. I love the interface and the way it integrates Tidal with my digital libray. From a sound perspective, the D1/C1/ch-link/synchro cards is the best sounding source followed VERY closely by streaming, then VERY closely by USB. For this reason, the next upgrade I would suggest after the X1 is a streaming card. You will need to set-up a simple network near your system components with an ethernet switch that supports PoE. Netgear makes one that works for me and you must attach it to a wireless base station via ethernet. Once you do this and purchase an Android device if you don’t have one, you can use the latest CH app to stream Tidal or music from your libray stored on NAS to the C1. No Roon interface but the CH app is nice! To my ears, streaming sounds more full and lifelike than USB. Furthermore, the CH app allows you to control your components from one device; no remotes needed. You will need to run an ethernet cable from each device (A1s, C1, D1) to your ethernet switch.
An L1/X1, M1 stereo upgrade will also add significantly to the presentation but that can be for another day. I waited several months before making that investment. Happy to answer any other questions. Enjoy the music!!
Ralph
I too am a lifetime Roon subscriber. I love the interface and the way it integrates Tidal with my digital libray. From a sound perspective, the D1/C1/ch-link/synchro cards is the best sounding source followed VERY closely by streaming, then VERY closely by USB. For this reason, the next upgrade I would suggest after the X1 is a streaming card. You will need to set-up a simple network near your system components with an ethernet switch that supports PoE. Netgear makes one that works for me and you must attach it to a wireless base station via ethernet. Once you do this and purchase an Android device if you don’t have one, you can use the latest CH app to stream Tidal or music from your libray stored on NAS to the C1. No Roon interface but the CH app is nice! To my ears, streaming sounds more full and lifelike than USB. Furthermore, the CH app allows you to control your components from one device; no remotes needed. You will need to run an ethernet cable from each device (A1s, C1, D1) to your ethernet switch.
An L1/X1, M1 stereo upgrade will also add significantly to the presentation but that can be for another day. I waited several months before making that investment. Happy to answer any other questions. Enjoy the music!!
Ralph
Steph,
Congrats on the system - CH gear is indeed incredible, and clearly very technologically advanced. I've spent quite a bit of time with it as it is imported into the UK by Wilson Benesch, whose speakers I own. Thoughts as follows......
To my mind, the L1 is the star of the show - it is by far the best pre-amp I've heard in my system, and the only reason I haven't bought one yet is that I'm keen to hear a few others before pulling the trigger. It offers all the detail and transparency you could ask for but not to the extent of sounding thin or edgy - in fact quite the opposite, as it has a very full almost tube-like sound which means even poor recordings sound good. It packs a punch in the bass, has a strong leading edge, and is timbrally very accurate. By all accounts, the X1 takes this even further still.
On the power-amp side, I've tried both single and mono A1's and love their flexibility. Sound-wise, however, I don't find they do anything much different to other competent SS amps, and as monos they end up looking expensive vs something like a pair of Audionet MAX, which to my mind have the edge in areas such as speed and dynamic punch. Again, by all accounts the M1's are a different league.
It's the digital side that really puzzles me. As Bonzo says, I compared the C1 to my Lampi GG2 and it wasn't even close - the C1 sounded dry and lifeless in comparison. Its therefore interesting that others come to a different conclusion (including Roy Gregory), suggesting that the C1 requires very careful and specific set-up to get the best from it and is something I've yet to hear.
Congrats on the system - CH gear is indeed incredible, and clearly very technologically advanced. I've spent quite a bit of time with it as it is imported into the UK by Wilson Benesch, whose speakers I own. Thoughts as follows......
To my mind, the L1 is the star of the show - it is by far the best pre-amp I've heard in my system, and the only reason I haven't bought one yet is that I'm keen to hear a few others before pulling the trigger. It offers all the detail and transparency you could ask for but not to the extent of sounding thin or edgy - in fact quite the opposite, as it has a very full almost tube-like sound which means even poor recordings sound good. It packs a punch in the bass, has a strong leading edge, and is timbrally very accurate. By all accounts, the X1 takes this even further still.
On the power-amp side, I've tried both single and mono A1's and love their flexibility. Sound-wise, however, I don't find they do anything much different to other competent SS amps, and as monos they end up looking expensive vs something like a pair of Audionet MAX, which to my mind have the edge in areas such as speed and dynamic punch. Again, by all accounts the M1's are a different league.
It's the digital side that really puzzles me. As Bonzo says, I compared the C1 to my Lampi GG2 and it wasn't even close - the C1 sounded dry and lifeless in comparison. Its therefore interesting that others come to a different conclusion (including Roy Gregory), suggesting that the C1 requires very careful and specific set-up to get the best from it and is something I've yet to hear.
Steph,
I don’t want go against the advise given. My only suggestion is have you tried replacing the stock fuses (lets just say) in the D1 and C1 to something like SR Blue ? When I first got the C1 I felt it was a touch dry and a little grey. I quickly replaced the stock fuse to SR Red at the time, then when the SR black was released, to it. Now synergistic research have released the SR Blue at around $150 each. I suggest you replace the stock fuses for it, you should find that the sound become less grey and less dry, while increasing dynamics and ‘blackness’ and better tone.
This may be a relatively inexpensive initial investigation, before you go down the path of getting a X1 with dual boards. Certainly it does not cost too much to try, you may even find that it nudges the D1/C1 just enough in the direction you want without the expense of getting a X1. Then when funds allow you can get a X1 with dual boards. And if you like what the SR blue fuses do to the D1/C1, then get some for the A1’s also.
P.S I did ask CHP if it it was ok to replace the cheap fuse it comes with, and they did not have any issues.
Cheers
I don’t want go against the advise given. My only suggestion is have you tried replacing the stock fuses (lets just say) in the D1 and C1 to something like SR Blue ? When I first got the C1 I felt it was a touch dry and a little grey. I quickly replaced the stock fuse to SR Red at the time, then when the SR black was released, to it. Now synergistic research have released the SR Blue at around $150 each. I suggest you replace the stock fuses for it, you should find that the sound become less grey and less dry, while increasing dynamics and ‘blackness’ and better tone.
This may be a relatively inexpensive initial investigation, before you go down the path of getting a X1 with dual boards. Certainly it does not cost too much to try, you may even find that it nudges the D1/C1 just enough in the direction you want without the expense of getting a X1. Then when funds allow you can get a X1 with dual boards. And if you like what the SR blue fuses do to the D1/C1, then get some for the A1’s also.
P.S I did ask CHP if it it was ok to replace the cheap fuse it comes with, and they did not have any issues.
Cheers
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Gianluigi, good to hear from you and hope you are well. YES! Running separate X1s for the L1 and P1 will improve your presentation. I experienced this myself. I believe that you will hear slightly more bass weight, greater soundstage, and a more “black” background. The only shared X1 that I have is for the C1/D1. All the best.
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