New darTZeel CTH 8550 MKII owner experience

[orfeo_monteverdi]

What are the upgrade paths i have if i wanted to keep my integrated yet have more driving power?

darTZeel integrated are rated 200W.
You probably do not need more power (watts) with Stenheim speakers (it very much depends on the distance from the speakers, and on the volume level you listen to).
If by "driving power" you mean the ability for the amplifier to drive the excursion of the speakers' cones, then I think an amp with a bigger power supply, but delivering the same "power" (200W) is appropriate. But, again, do Stenheims really need such a riot of power supply ( = even more that what darTZeel delivers?!) given that they are 8 Ohms (4 to 6 Ohms min, depending on models), and offer very good sensitivity? I strongly doubt.

Focus instead on the the model that will suit your room best, then on the setup.

Good luck.

 

[LimaLikesMusic]

I never earth the Stenheim but because i see so good reviews I’m curious to give a listen.

I like to ear at high levels to feel the bass on my chest and using with the Wilson Alexia 2 i have that. One note, when i up-grade my cables from the Nordost Valhalla2 to the Synergetic research SRX full loom with the Galileo SX power cell the bass increase a lot, a new level.

 

[gleeds]

The darTZeel 8550 II is a superb amplifier and mates exceptionally well with Steinhems. There are probably integrated amplifiers with more grunt, but few are more refined. Speaker cables, as always, will make a significant difference! Good luck with your search.

 

[mglik]

Hi Hansen,

I have owned by my 8550 for about 6 months.
It is, by far, the best, most advanced, and most powerful amp I have ever owned.
As far as I know, it is significantly more powerful than the quite powerful Dartzeel NHB 108 Model 2. And, of special note to you, Herve is a major fan and user of Stenheim speakers. The 8550 MK2 is 200 watts into 8 ohms and 350 into 4 ohms and continues to increase as the impedance goes down. And its more detailed and specific technical power characteristics make it capable of easily powering almost any load.
If I did not already own and love my Quad 2812X speakers (not a particularly easy load) I would probably get Stenheims greatly because of Herve.

 

[asiufy]

Stenheim and darTZeel is a great combination, as the higher efficiency of the speakers allow the amps to operate in a very comfortable power-handling zone.

Alumine 5 and the 108 mk2 as able to fill my large listening room with ease!

 

[Hansen]

Thanks

darTZeel integrated are rated 200W.
You probably do not need more power (watts) with Stenheim speakers (it very much depends on the distance from the speakers, and on the volume level you listen to).
If by "driving power" you mean the ability for the amplifier to drive the excursion of the speakers' cones, then I think an amp with a bigger power supply, but delivering the same "power" (200W) is appropriate. But, again, do Stenheims really need such a riot of power supply ( = even more that what darTZeel delivers?!) given that they are 8 Ohms (4 to 6 Ohms min, depending on models), and offer very good sensitivity? I strongly doubt.

Focus instead on the the model that will suit your room best, then on the setup.

Good luck.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[buzzlulu]

Stenheim and darTZeel is a great combination, as the higher efficiency of the speakers allow the amps to operate in a very comfortable power-handling zone.

Alumine 5 and the 108 mk2 as able to fill my large listening room with ease!

What he said.
I have a new pair of Alumina 5SE in my "normal" sized room (17' x 12'). No problem at all driving them with the 108 mk2.
I found the Stenheim's to work much better with my DarTZeel rather than the new Sasha V and Magico S3 which I also demoed.
Now just waiting on some new speaker cables and interconnect to be delivered.

 

[Hansen]

What he said.
I have a new pair of Alumina 5SE in my "normal" sized room (17' x 12'). No problem at all driving them with the 108 mk2.
I found the Stenheim's to work much better with my DarTZeel rather than the new Sasha V and Magico S3 which I also demoed.
Now just waiting on some new speaker cables and interconnect to be delivered.

Thanks, curious what speaker cables are planning to hook up your stenheim and 108 mk2?

 

[buzzlulu]

A set of Siltech Classic Legends 680 should be arriving shortly.
Stenheim used Crystal Cables at Munich (sister company of Siltech) and I have heard Stenheims with all silver cables before - WAY cables and Audio Pur from Massachusetts. I was impressed

 

[Dierkx1]

What he said.
I have a new pair of Alumina 5SE in my "normal" sized room (17' x 12'). No problem at all driving them with the 108 mk2.
I found the Stenheim's to work much better with my DarTZeel rather than the new Sasha V and Magico S3 which I also demoed.
Now just waiting on some new speaker cables and interconnect to be delivered.

I have a slightly larger room (18' x 14') and am considering Stenheim 3SE to pair with my 8550. Curious as to why you went with 5SE vs 3SE?

 

[buzzlulu]

I had the chance to demo both the 3's and the 5SE both fronted with a 8550 (I have the separates)
As per my demo, imho, the 3 presented as a normal speaker on par with my Kudos Titan T88 (one of the highest rated speakers in the UK however mostly only known by Naim and Linn users). If the choice was only the 3 I would have remained with my Titans

It was obvious the 5SE was a different animal. It easily showed why it is so highly regarded. Many at the recent Munich show named the Stenheim room (5SE with new base) as one of the best sounding of the show.

I had interactions with two different Stenheim dealers (one in Europe and one Stateside). Both stated the 5 was a different animal - with the upgraded crossover of the SE making a large and noticeable difference.

Perhaps if the 3 I demoed would have been the SE version my opinion would have changed.

The other thing I liked about the 5SE was its physical size. It is room friendly.

 

[Dierkx1]

Thanks, appreciate the reply. I'll give both a listen. The local (San Francisco) Stenheim dealer doesn't carry Dartzeel so I'll need to bring my 8550 with me.

 

[buzzlulu]

Easier than bringing the separates
Which speaker cable will they be using for the demo?

 

[Dierkx1]

Dealer carries Nordost, Crystal and Audience range.

 

[buzzlulu]

Try Crystal - owned by Siltech. Both are Silver

 

[Big Dog RJ]

The Dartzeel is without a doubt, "one of the best" A true top performer and one of those units that will perform very well in a top quality system on par. I also believe it's one of those amps where you're pretty much set for life!
I brought the version one on home trial, although it managed to handle the CLX's quite well, I realised the MK2 had the extra edge. It just had more of everything that the Mk1 fell short on.

This particular integrated of the Dartzeel was on my short list of top three SS amplifiers, which I've been compiling for a few years now, since the Mk1 version was released. I've home trialled 13 different amplifiers and still going... no clear winner as yet but soon.
However, since lately the Dartzeel fell off this list, since I came across this other particular integrated, at just less than half the price of the Dartzeel and performs flawlessly! Another superb product, none other than Burmester. Look out! This one's Outstanding with a capital "O"

Im not saying that the Burmester 032 beats the Dartzeel hands down... no such thing. The two are very different and both perform at the highest level of musicality with finesse! Pricing on the Dart is off-putting (for me...) at $AUD 65grand!
The Burmester 032, i can get at 28grand, that's a massive difference between the two. Also within similar pricing, Pass Labs XA60.8 and XA100.8 monoblocks, and the Vitus SS-103, another superb unit but more expensive than Pass Labs.
So as of now, my current top three:
1. Pass Labs XA60.8 or 100.8
2. Burmester 032
3. Vitus SS-103

The Dartzeel was up there in second position but our current dealer wouldn't budge on the pricing. Fair enough, coming from Swiss-NESS that thick gold face plate alone must cost 20grand!

For those looking out for a really top performance in integrated design, check the B-032, you'll be amazed from the first note onwards. And it can handle full range stats easily.
Woof! RJ

 

[marba_hr]

For those looking out for a really top performance in integrated design, check the B-032, you'll be amazed from the first note onwards. And it can handle full range stats easily.
Woof! RJ

Big DOg,


The Burmester has a cold Teutonic sound that’s nowhere near the level of darTZeel.
Your issue with dealer not giving you discount you required needn’t come to bashing the fine component as darTZeel 50 MKll is.

I use Avalon Compas with my 8550 and couldn’t be more happy. Even more after I have upgraded LS cables from Skogrand Rachmaninov to Tchaikovsky MKll.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Attn: Marba_hr

Not quite sure about "bashing" Dartzeel...???
I never bashed nor stated anything negative about Dartzeel. Based on my post above- dated June 30 2024 #56; please read again. I think my opening statement on Dartzeel is plain enough for anyone to comprehend what I've said. It's stated very clearly, the fact that I actually enjoyed my time with the Dartzeel gear...

Dartzeel was on my short list of top 3 SS design amplifiers, since I'm seeking alternatives for all my tube gear when retirement comes. However, at the moment, it's still Pass Labs for me, and that's taking into consideration, overall performance plus VFM. Also for us folks Down Unda, we may not have access to the required service centres, if anything were to go wrong. Buying the Dartzeel or anything of that highend nature is not an issue, rather it's the tech support centres that are not easy to access.

So far, most of the gear I've owned here in Aus (CJ, VTL, ARC, Manley Labs, Esoteric, ML, Apogee, Magnepan and McIntosh) have all had excellent service! Promptly attended with outstanding results, so no issues with these brands. The same goes with Pass Labs, Vitus, Burmester, and a few others. Considering Dartzeel, there's no local service centre in Aus or in Melbourne as far as I'm aware. Maybe you can determine that for me... in which case IF I require service, I'd need to ship my Dartzeel either to the nearest country that supports service or all the way to Switzerland! No thanks.

So, it's not just about the gear or design when purchasing highend. It's about the whole business model and whether you're going to be looked after in the long run. That's very important to me and has always been my benchmark in deciding on which gear to settle for. Overall, I believe McIntosh has the greatest advantage in tech support service centres. They're everywhere in the world, they look after their customers and they're built like tanks! So nothing's bullet proof, and when the support is needed, they deliver!

Hope that clears things up. Sorry if my words offended you in the form of bashing Dartzeel... but I never did! I really do like Dartzeel. They're SOTA designs, there's no denying that!

Cheers, and do enjoy those finest tunes.
Woof! RJ

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Phew! That was a close one maties

Update: our one and only Importer for Dartzeel Down Unda has shut down, bummer. Quite sad indeed, although their website still mentions they are honouring "imports/ orders"... I'm guessing back orders.
I only got to know few days ago when three of my good mates received official notification from the company stating that ops are closing. This is happening far too often in our construction industry, for both civil, commercial and residential development, close to 3000 companies have shut down. Hence, it doesn't matter what type of industry you're in... when it comes down the curtain falls. And so I guess we have to stick with what's available to us, both in terms of customer support and technical service. That's very important in this industry, otherwise there's no chance competing with the big guns... for example McIntosh. Solid!!!

Now, of course Dartzeel is off my short list including Burmester because Burmester only accepts XLR connections. I'm not going to change for this purpose. If I had gone with Dartzeel, I would've been up a sheeet creeek without both the paddle & rudder, if service was needed. This also affects quite a few others, Gryphon, Goldmun, Aries Cerat and similar line of gear, was also offered by the importer. Not too sure if our Aus market is significant enough to sustain sales of this highend nature.

Anyway, on a more positive note, my regular importers / dealers for CJ, ARC, VTL, Jadis, Ayon, Allnic and others are still going pretty strong. So I'll just stick with tooobs for now. Have always preferred the sound and particular attributes in vacuum tube presentation.

For those who are seeking the glorious levels of musicality with finesse in Dartzeel gear, and have access to fully established service centres, go for it! Dartzeel doesn't fall shot of being marvellous and they're damn beautiful!

As far as SS power amplifier alternatives are concerned, my quest continues... Pass Labs is still on top. Until such time, do enjoy those finest tunes!
Woof! RJ