Audio Note vs. Aries Cerat vs. darTZeel

[Hyperion]

I see, sorry. Yes, I agree. I’m all for a larger share of the selling price to go to the manufacturer. Look- it doesn’t make sense for the dealer/distributor to keep 50-60% of the selling price. They are not adding equal value to the manufacturer!

Investors take about 80% from my experience. 20% is more like a discount from the next financing round, or interest on a loan.

The margins differ greatly depending on setup, responsibility, investment, product category etc. An actual 50-60% margin is not the reality all things considered for anyone in the end. A typical dealer margin is 30-40% in general.

/ Marcus

 

[Lagonda]

I do believe that you need some more insight and real world experience to see the full picture.

Running a retail and/or distribution business depending on the setup involves negotiations, trade-ins, heavy investment in demo units, home loans, financial support, warranty + all of the overhead involved in running any business (rent, salaries, insurance, ...). Adding to this is the need of extensive PR and marketing activities throughout all channels - IRL and online. We did three shows last year (including our own - Take 5) + dedicated events in Sweden only.

If you manage to succeed, you're looking at a limited sales number on the higher level in a normal year on a small market such as Sweden (US and UK are vastly different though of course in terms of market size).

Fact is that most businesses within this space are working overtime to survive on the current market where few are truly flourishing.

/ Marcus, www.perfect-sense.se

You do seem to be quite successful at selling equipment, you periodically post congratulations on facebook to the new owners.

 

[Hyperion]

You do seem to be quite successful at selling equipment, you periodically post congratulations on facebook to the new owners.

I've invested most of my time and a lot of resources into Perfect sense during the last decade. Things have turned out well, for which I'm very grateful. Much due to the invaluable support of friends, family and clients.

Easy, no. Fulfilling, yes.

/ Marcus, www.perfect-sense.se

 

[dctom]

A good friend worked in Hifi retail, eventually running his own Hifi business. He told me his margin was around 30% depending on manufacturer, sometimes a bit less for lower cost items. A mark up of 80% is excessive to say the least.

 

[VoicesInMyHead]

Curious if your Protos came in and how it's going?

now my Protos has finally arrived and I've been in heaven for a few days with music constantly playing. to say that I'm happy is an understatement, this amplifier is everything I could possibly wish for and more, the sound that comes out of it is simply fabulous! I've gone through some nice integrated amps during the years which has all been good in their own ways and I've appreciated them all very much, but Protos is to me in its own league, no competition! I think it has everything, it has warmth, it sounds natural and organic, it has amazing details and soundstage, depth and height, it has muscles and bass, it brings out engagement and emotions, there's no tendency of listening fatigue or anything sounding harsh or aggressive in my ears. I can play really loud with this thing, and I want to keep that volume coming up! this is a an amazingly fun and addictive amplifier, I simply love it!

it's big and heavy though! it's not very practical in that sense. I thought my Absolare was big and heavy, that was lightweight in comparison. the packaging and padding within the wooden box was impressive and the overall feeling when unpacking was absolutely top quality. I love the remote, the little box containing tubes (and spares) and a nicely looking manual in a hardcover book form. small things maybe, but they absolutely add to the lovely feeling when unboxing and setting it up for the first time.

of all the gear I've bought and heard in my system during the years, this is the best! I've never been as happy and satisfied with anything before. nothing comes even close. so yes, I guess I can recommend it...

 

[morricab]

now my Protos has finally arrived and I've been in heaven for a few days with music constantly playing. to say that I'm happy is an understatement, this amplifier is everything I could possibly wish for and more, the sound that comes out of it is simply fabulous! I've gone through some nice integrated amps during the years which has all been good in their own ways and I've appreciated them all very much, but Protos is to me in its own league, no competition! I think it has everything, it has warmth, it sounds natural and organic, it has amazing details and soundstage, depth and height, it has muscles and bass, it brings out engagement and emotions, there's no tendency of listening fatigue or anything sounding harsh or aggressive in my ears. I can play really loud with this thing, and I want to keep that volume coming up! this is a an amazingly fun and addictive amplifier, I simply love it!

it's big and heavy though! it's not very practical in that sense. I thought my Absolare was big and heavy, that was lightweight in comparison. the packaging and padding within the wooden box was impressive and the overall feeling when unpacking was absolutely top quality. I love the remote, the little box containing tubes (and spares) and a nicely looking manual in a hardcover book form. small things maybe, but they absolutely add to the lovely feeling when unboxing and setting it up for the first time.

of all the gear I've bought and heard in my system during the years, this is the best! I've never been as happy and satisfied with anything before. nothing comes even close. so yes, I guess I can recommend it...

Congrats! My mainstay amp as well! What tubes are you using?

 

[VoicesInMyHead]

Congrats! My mainstay amp as well! What tubes are you using?

thanks! about tubes, I can't really tell either name or type from these... looks russian though this is actually the spare ones, the main ones look similar but came in white boxes but due to an "incident" I'm actually running the spare ones now. maybe not what I would have chosen myself, but I have nothing to complain about regarding the sound as for now. any recommendations?

 

[Rensselaer]

NOT TRUE. Stop spreading lies.

DarTZeel website

 

[Argonaut]

now my Protos has finally arrived and I've been in heaven for a few days with music constantly playing.

Congratulations, I wish you joy of your new amplifier . Were you able to demo this model before making your commitment , or did you take a giant leap of faith ?

 

[VoicesInMyHead]

Congratulations, I wish you joy of your new amplifier . Were you able to demo this model before making your commitment , or did you take a giant leap of faith ?

thanks! I listened at my local dealer with speakers of the same brand as I have at home. it was an instant love affair! I wasn't even supposed to listen to the Aries Cerat, it just happened to stand there craving for my attention, but once it started playing there was no going back. I was actually so sure about what I heard that I didn't bother trying it at home, which I always try to do otherwise.

 

[morricab]

thanks! about tubes, I can't really tell either name or type from these... looks russian though this is actually the spare ones, the main ones look similar but came in white boxes but due to an "incident" I'm actually running the spare ones now. maybe not what I would have chosen myself, but I have nothing to complain about regarding the sound as for now. any recommendations?

I personally have settled on the E280F but I tried these little Russian ones early on and my amp took a long time to fully break in, so I need to given them another shot at some point. I also liked the E810F but need to go back to them again as well to be sure. That said, I have always liked the E280F sound in my Incito and the Genus I had earlier. There is a good reason Stavros uses that tube...it sounds superb!

 

[DasguteOhr]

thanks! about tubes, I can't really tell either name or type from these... looks russian though this is actually the spare ones, the main ones look similar but came in white boxes but due to an "incident" I'm actually running the spare ones now. maybe not what I would have chosen myself, but I have nothing to complain about regarding the sound as for now. any recommendations?

Congrats nice amp,is that tube a 6j11p-e? works pretty well little more gain as the e280f.

 

[VoicesInMyHead]

I personally have settled on the E280F but I tried these little Russian ones early on and my amp took a long time to fully break in, so I need to given them another shot at some point. I also liked the E810F but need to go back to them again as well to be sure. That said, I have always liked the E280F sound in my Incito and the Genus I had earlier. There is a good reason Stavros uses that tube...it sounds superb!

mm, E280F is probably what I would like try eventually.

 

[VoicesInMyHead]

Congrats nice amp,is that tube a 6j11p-e? works pretty well little more gain as the e280f.

thanks! I think it might be but I'm not sure, I can't really read what it says. it sounds great already after just a couple of days though, I will probably burn in with these tubes before trying something else.

 

[DasguteOhr]

thanks! I think it might be but I'm not sure, I can't really read what it says. it sounds great already after just a couple of days though, I will probably burn in with these tubes before trying something else.

I have zoom in in the pic ...yes it is that tube

 

[morricab]

I have zoom in in the pic ...yes it is that tube

I am using an Incito preamp with my Protos and fixed Protos as a power amp…find that works better with non-AC sources.

 

[morricab]

mm, E280F is probably what I would like try eventually.

What bias settings do you use? I am around 21.

 

[VoicesInMyHead]

What bias settings do you use? I am around 21.

I set it to 20 per recommendation from the manual, but I was about to ask about that because it fluctuates quite a lot, and it’s probably not supposed to do that? Maybe I should switch to the “intended” supplied tubes and see if they are more stable?

 

[VoicesInMyHead]

I am using an Incito preamp with my Protos and fixed Protos as a power amp…find that works better with non-AC sources.

I don’t doubt the separate preamp is better than Protos, as with most products when it comes to integrated vs separates, but I’m quite happy to be on Protos level for the moment

 

[DasguteOhr]

I set it to 20 per recommendation from the manual, but I was about to ask about that because it fluctuates quite a lot, and it’s probably not supposed to do that? Maybe I should switch to the “intended” supplied tubes and see if they are more stable?

If these are NOS tubes that have still been used, then it can vary. Put the tubes in the oven for 3 hours at 130-150 degrees, then let them cool down before opening the door. Then try again. It's a tried and tested trick. I do it for every 6c33 tube. I think it works for your tubes too. If it doesn't run stable then new tubes will be needed.
you age the tube with the procedure then usually run more stable.