Audio Note UK vs Audio Japan Sonic Differences

[mtemur]

When you say you don’t think there is any difference between the triple mica and five-star, you mean sound-wise, right?

The URL I attached shows a massive difference in the construction. Differences including five mica in the five-star (paired-mica above and below the plates =4 mica + additional getter shield mica at the top =5 mica) and gold or silver plated grids. It also speaks of holes in the mica, thyratron welding, other including the five-stars being built in a completely separate factory space to all the others GE made.

I don't think there is any difference between GE 5-star and regular triple mica, square getter 6072 tubes from the same era, around 1954-1958. They're identical both sound wise and construction wise. I mean General Electric 6072 tubes not the other brands.

AFAIK there are only 2 or 3 micas inside small signal double triode tubes. Never heard of 5 mica GE 6072 and I don't think they exist. I can tell you that it's a GE 6072 square getter before 1959 by looking at the inner parts of the tube at the page you shared. Some have support posts and small plates between posts that separate second and third micas as the one in the pictures but it is not consistent through all the GE 6072 tubes.

Specifications, advertisements, brochures may tell a different story but one thing is pretty consistent with GE tubes, especially with 6072s. They are unreliable. It's advertised that they're sturdy, mil-spec tubes and have 10.000 hrs life span but my experience tells the other way. They fail more than any small tube that I ever used. I'm damn sure about it.

1950's GE triple mica 6072 tube means: expect to deal with differences between triodes, be prepared for a tube failure, stock many of them etc. Unfortunately there is no alternative.

 

[Rensselaer]

I don't think there is any difference between GE 5-star and regular triple mica, square getter 6072 tubes from the same era, around 1954-1958. They're identical both sound wise and construction wise. I mean General Electric 6072 tubes not the other brands.

AFAIK there are only 2 or 3 micas inside small signal double triode tubes. Never heard of 5 mica GE 6072 and I don't think they exist. I can tell you that it's a GE 6072 square getter before 1959 by looking at the inner parts of the tube at the page you shared. Some have support posts and small plates between posts that separate second and third micas as the one in the pictures but it is not consistent through all the GE 6072 tubes.

Specifications, advertisements, brochures may tell a different story but one thing is pretty consistent with GE tubes, especially with 6072s. They are unreliable. It's advertised that they're sturdy, mil-spec tubes and have 10.000 hrs life span but my experience tells the other way. They fail more than any small tube that I ever used. I'm damn sure about it.

1950's GE triple mica 6072 tube means: expect to deal with differences between triodes, be prepared for a tube failure, stock many of them etc. Unfortunately there is no alternative.

Are we looking at the same photo? I can clearly see a horizontal line showing that the upper and lower micas are actually two micas together at each site. Doubled for extra strength. The mica under the D-getter looks to be just one however.

I ask then would others following this thread have a look at the article I attached to my posting (#354) and tell me if you see just one mica wafer at three sites, or pairs of micas pressed together above and below the plates and another (5th) single mica under the D-getter up top. In addition, read the rest of the article on how GE made their 5-star 6072s in a completely separate factory with better parts (silver/gold-plated grids) and much more stringent build standards and vote whether you believe this fake or accurate.

 

[mtemur]

Are we looking at the same photo? I can clearly see a horizontal line showing that the upper and lower micas are actually two micas together at each site. Doubled for extra strength. The mica under the D-getter looks to be just one however.

It is always like that. That's how a triple mica tube's construction looks like. There is no such a thing like 5 mica 6072 tube AFAIK.

 

[Rensselaer]

It is always like that. That's how a triple mica tube's construction looks like. There is no such a thing like 5 mica 6072 tube AFAIK.

What does AFAIK mean?

 

[mtemur]

What does AFAIK mean?

as far as I know

 

[Javla]

I never much liked the old Meishu or for that matter, any 300B amplifier all that much - The Meishu Tonmeister is the only exception thus far. I have the entry-level P3 Tonmeister in for review. The OTO which I have owned for 20 years is no match but then for the price it is in the price range of something like the Sugden A21SE and various tube amps from the likes of Line Magnetic, Prima Luna, Cary, Leben etc and the OTO competes and IME betters these at similar dollars.

The new 300B Tonmesiter amps use the same patented Galahad power supply of the Ongaku which is likely the reason the 300B actually has oomph as most 300B amps sound more than a bit weak-willed.

Still - pretty much every tube amplifier manufacturer sells a variety of tube amps with different tube types - so there isn't exactly a consensus as to which ones sound best. Best sometimes comes down to what you can afford or how you try to convince yourself that what you like is "the best." And worse, what you think is best in one system may be "meh" in a different system. IMO the mistake all these "full system" companies make is they all wind up living or dying on their speakers.If someone listens to an all AN or Krell or Linn or McIntosh system - if you don't like the sound of the room then you tend to chuck "everything" out. I didn't like the Ruthy speakers Kondo was using - but I didn't chuck out Kondo's amplifiers. Naim and Linn speakers don't really showcase Naim or Linn amps and sources. Of course, the other end of this coin is that if one likes the AN or Krell or McIntosh "system" then they sell someone 5-6 products instead of just an amplifier.

I spoke to AN dealer and he said the great thing about being a dealer for the brand is repeat business. If he sells someone a roksan integrated amp - great. They make a sale - but there is a good chance they'll never see that customer again. With selling Audio Note, the guy buys a CD player and loves it - comes back and buys an amp comes back and gets cables then there is also a large upgrade path. In a shrinking market, with fewer audiophiles, you need that repeat business and it helps if the company has an upgrade path to return to.

Audio Note UK has released a level 4 and level 5 version of the Meishu called Konzertmeister and Kapellmeister respectively. These would be the 300B equivalents of Tomei and Ongaku.

Hi Richard… here is my question… I have to decide which amp

I never much liked the old Meishu or for that matter, any 300B amplifier all that much - The Meishu Tonmeister is the only exception thus far. I have the entry-level P3 Tonmeister in for review. The OTO which I have owned for 20 years is no match but then for the price it is in the price range of something like the Sugden A21SE and various tube amps from the likes of Line Magnetic, Prima Luna, Cary, Leben etc and the OTO competes and IME betters these at similar dollars.

The new 300B Tonmesiter amps use the same patented Galahad power supply of the Ongaku which is likely the reason the 300B actually has oomph as most 300B amps sound more than a bit weak-willed.

Still - pretty much every tube amplifier manufacturer sells a variety of tube amps with different tube types - so there isn't exactly a consensus as to which ones sound best. Best sometimes comes down to what you can afford or how you try to convince yourself that what you like is "the best." And worse, what you think is best in one system may be "meh" in a different system. IMO the mistake all these "full system" companies make is they all wind up living or dying on their speakers.If someone listens to an all AN or Krell or Linn or McIntosh system - if you don't like the sound of the room then you tend to chuck "everything" out. I didn't like the Ruthy speakers Kondo was using - but I didn't chuck out Kondo's amplifiers. Naim and Linn speakers don't really showcase Naim or Linn amps and sources. Of course, the other end of this coin is that if one likes the AN or Krell or McIntosh "system" then they sell someone 5-6 products instead of just an amplifier.

I spoke to AN dealer and he said the great thing about being a dealer for the brand is repeat business. If he sells someone a roksan integrated amp - great. They make a sale - but there is a good chance they'll never see that customer again. With selling Audio Note, the guy buys a CD player and loves it - comes back and buys an amp comes back and gets cables then there is also a large upgrade path. In a shrinking market, with fewer audiophiles, you need that repeat business and it helps if the company has an upgrade path to return to.

Audio Note UK has released a level 4 and level 5 version of the Meishu called Konzertmeister and Kapellmeister respectively. These would be the 300B equivalents of Tomei and Ongaku.

Hi Richard. I'd like your opinion on which amplifier to buy. I'm testing a used Line Magnetic 508ia with PSVane Acme tubes and a bypassed preamp, and I really like the sound. I also have the option of buying a Signature OTO, but I can't test it first. In theory, the OTO should sound better, but I have my doubts. I have some Legacy Whispers speakers with 96 dB sensitivity. Can you help me decide?

 

[Richard Austen]

Hi Richard… here is my question… I have to decide which amp

Hi Richard. I'd like your opinion on which amplifier to buy. I'm testing a used Line Magnetic 508ia with PSVane Acme tubes and a bypassed preamp, and I really like the sound. I also have the option of buying a Signature OTO, but I can't test it first. In theory, the OTO should sound better, but I have my doubts. I have some Legacy Whispers speakers with 96 dB sensitivity. Can you help me decide?

Always buy the amplifier you can actually audition for yourself and never one that you can't. The simple reason is that no matter how much a person likes an amp, it does not mean that they will like it. It's no different than buying other products like cars - Car A may get better reviews (more stars) in the press, but if the thing hurts your back, then what good is it? There is always another option.

And few people directly A/B this stuff in the same room with the same speakers at the same volume with the same volume without removing their personal bias for the product or the sales person or the company owner or the country of manufacture, or the price.

LM, in my experience, sounded better as a power amp, and I appreciated that LM understands that too, which is why they allow for direct-in.

The OTO is going to sound different - it's SEP and EL84, and I have yet to hear a poor-sounding EL84 from Audio Note or anyone else. It's kind of a go-to recommendation tube amp because they tend to be affordable, the tubes last a long time and are cheap relative to other tubes, and the OTO is self-bias, so folks new to tubes don't need to adjust the amp when replacing tubes.

But you lose flexibility with the OTO in that, unless they changed it, you can't add an external preamp or power amp to it. Although I know you can order it with this function from the manufacturer as well as dedicated headphone amp OTOs.

 

[morricab]

Always buy the amplifier you can actually audition for yourself and never one that you can't. The simple reason is that no matter how much a person likes an amp, it does not mean that they will like it. It's no different than buying other products like cars - Car A may get better reviews (more stars) in the press, but if the thing hurts your back, then what good is it? There is always another option.

And few people directly A/B this stuff in the same room with the same speakers at the same volume with the same volume without removing their personal bias for the product or the sales person or the company owner or the country of manufacture, or the price.

LM, in my experience, sounded better as a power amp, and I appreciated that LM understands that too, which is why they allow for direct-in.

The OTO is going to sound different - it's SEP and EL84, and I have yet to hear a poor-sounding EL84 from Audio Note or anyone else. It's kind of a go-to recommendation tube amp because they tend to be affordable, the tubes last a long time and are cheap relative to other tubes, and the OTO is self-bias, so folks new to tubes don't need to adjust the amp when replacing tubes.

But you lose flexibility with the OTO in that, unless they changed it, you can't add an external preamp or power amp to it. Although I know you can order it with this function from the manufacturer as well as dedicated headphone amp OTOs.

The LM amps that I have heard (LM219ia, LM210ia and A125 (211 SET)) all sounded great. My friend borrowed the OTO SE signature (with the double C core amps) and we compared it to a SET from Ayon (32B amp). They both sounded good but we both agreed the Ayon was a better sounding amp in terms of tonality and instrument texture.