New DartZeel Owner

[Zeotrope]

@Zeotrope - not quite the topic of this thread, but thanks for that photo. Note that the NHB18NS (or mine anyway) allows a banana plug into the ground lug on both sides of the mono. I used that to chassis ground to material audible effect. Perhaps I did it wrong, but it worked for me and seemed to be designed for that purpose. Otherwise, I would have gone the same route you went.

Can you post a photo? Do you mean the phono board ground?
Also, where did you run the ground wire to?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

@Zeotrope - not quite the topic of this thread, but thanks for that photo. Note that the NHB18NS (or mine anyway) allows a banana plug into the ground lug on both sides of the mono. I used that to chassis ground to material audible effect. Perhaps I did it wrong, but it worked for me and seemed to be designed for that purpose. Otherwise, I would have gone the same route you went.

if you are referring to the area inside #8, on either side of the power umbilical connection, those are 12v triggers. but i could see they could easily work as grounding lugs too. likely grounded to the circuit boards inside. but the down side might be unpredictable. so that method is not without risk.

this is the original back panel, not the new Mk2, but that part of the panel is the same on both. i did not have a handy pic of the Mk2.

 

[BR549]

The phono board ground (in Section 1 of Mike's photo above, but I grounded both sides with a banana). Running it to a Nordost QKore (which worked better as a chassis ground for me than a signal ground). I could be all screwed up on this and profess no expertise, other than what I heard in my system.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

@BR549, Are you using the screws for the phono boards? or attaching some sort of banana female piece to the grounding post?

here is a pic of Mk2 just now. i'm only using one of my two dart phono's. but other than the screws (top and bottom), i don't see anything else to attach something to.

the phono for the Mk1 18NS is different, per the picture i posted above.

 

[BR549]

Yes. The screws for the phono boards allow the screw to be opened/closed to put a spade under it, but they also allow a banana connection (male) to be inserted. So, I ran a cable from my QKore grounding unit into the banana connection on the phono board. I also have a spade connected to my EMM Labs equalizer (DSAudio system). I haven't consulted with herve or anyone from DartZ on it, but it did have an audible impact (my system/my ear/etc./et al).

 

[BR549]

Yes. The screws for the phono boards allow the screw to be opened/closed to put a spade under it, but they also allow a banana connection (male) to be inserted. So, I ran a cable from my QKore grounding unit into the banana connection on the phono board. I also have a spade connected to my EMM Labs equalizer (DSAudio system). I haven't consulted with herve or anyone from DartZ on it, but it did have an audible impact (my system/my ear/etc./et al).

To be clear, I inserted the banana for both sides, given the dual mono configuration.

 

[Zeotrope]

It does look like if your Ground is set to Connected, then the ground is connected to AC ground though the power supply. And the power supply is grounded to the chassis, so using that screw closest to the AC input will ground the 18NS to AC.

 

[Zeotrope]

Mike, do you connect both phono grounds together? From the tonearm cable you typically see one ground wire, not two.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Yes. The screws for the phono boards, but they also allow a banana connection (male) to be inserted. So, I ran a cable from my QKore grounding unit into the banana connection on the phono board. I also have a spade connected to my EMM Labs equalizer (DSAudio system). I haven't consulted with herve or anyone from DartZ on it, but it did have an audible impact (my system/my ear/etc./et al).

so far, clear as mud. i appreciate your efforts and am trying to learn from you. sorry for all the minutia questions.

" allow the screw to be opened/closed to put a spade under it"......open, closed? not sure what that means?

either.....

1-you removed the screw and ran a wire with a banana through the hole into the inside of the dart pre to a banana female plug on the internal circuit board. "into the banana connection on the phono board"

or....

2-you removed the screw and utilized the screw hole as the female plug for your banana tipped ground wire?

or....

3--you attached a spade under the phono board screw and attached your ground to that.

choose one. or since there are two screws maybe a combination of two.

or maybe a picture or specifics. sorry but i'm slow.

thanks.

 

[BR549]

Sorry Mike - apologies. This is something that would take two and a half minutes in person but is complicated to write. Double apologies if my post was not clear. Here goes again:

First, I ground the arm to the grounding screw on the back of the preamp with a typical spade connection - tighten the screw and it holds the spade in place. There are, of course, two of such screws on the back of the preamp, but I only connect to one of them for reasons associated with my table/arm configuration. I think this is your option 3 above.

Second, those same two screws permit the insertion of a banana plug, in addition to the typical spade connection without having to do anything to them. So, I run two banana to banana wires from the QKore grounding base (or it could be an Altaira, etc.) and insert a banana into each of the screws on the back of the preamp. I think (but am not sure) that this is closest to your option 1 above, but I didn't have to remove the screw in order to do this - the banana just fits right into the same screw that holds down the spade. What surprised me was that the screws on the preamp have the female banana connection built into them. This may not surprise others, but it surprised me.

As I mentioned, I haven't discussed this with Herve or anyone, but experienced tangible SQ improvement with the arrangement. Of course, I haven't been able to get grounding results to be precisely predictable yet across multiple components and grounds, so everyone's mileage may vary.

 

[Zeotrope]

I think it’s preferable to connect both phono grounds together. So from the turntable to the preamp, add a jumper wire between both phono ground posts. After all, you are connecting RCA left and right, so it makes sense to run the ground to both terminals from the TT.

@BR549 - is your ground switch connected to on or off? You’ll find this inside the 18NS.

 

[BR549]

Well, I’m actually not connecting RCA left and right. I run my stereo cartridge/arm into an EMM Labs Equalizer (DSAudio system) and my mono cartridge/arm into the DartZeel. Thus, to get the mono to behave, I only plug one cable into the Dart (true mono) and then hit the “mono” button on the front of the pre when I use the mono arm. Works a charm. Don’t know about the ground switch inside the Dart. I wouldn’t ever open the box on my own (yes, I’m quite the wimp that way).

 

[Zeotrope]

The ground switch inside is meant to be switched by the user, so there’s no harm in trying it with ground on and off. Herve will say to change it if you have excess noise. It’s the floating vs connected ground debate.

 

[Tbzc]

Would you please explain where this ground switch is? I do not see this in a manual. Thanks.

 

[Zeotrope]

Yes, you have to remove the bottom cover. It’s then visible on one of the PCBs. Hervé has said to select the best option to minimize noise.
Remember to power off in sleep mode first.

 

[BR549]

@redandgold - thanks for your spot several months back. It took a while, but the stands have been corrected.

 

[redandgold]

You are welcome. Before, did you have a prototype? Do you feel the final edition is soundwise better?

 

[BR549]

It's weird, as the unit I was shipped was (I think) their Silence Focus unit, but it had the DartZeel color combo (or I thought it did). The new unit was clearly built for the Dart (including the logo and cutouts for the feet of the amps). The sound might be a little better, but not clearly enough that I can say for sure that there was a SQ uplift. My perception of SQ could be just because I was so much more pleased with the aesthetics of the stands. Thanks again.

 

[redandgold]

Yes, the customized model specially for darTZeel looks much better. I have the feeling the former base is the Thixar Silence Focus. Which could be the general base, and yours is only bespoke to the weight of the 468s With perfect size. This would explain the similar performance of both bases.