New Dedicated Listening Room

[Kingrex]

I was trying it for the first time. I needed to get an outlet behind my monoblocks. I put it there to my amps. I am getting 2 more. 1 will feed my Torus and the other will be in my Torus feeding my power strip.

If I were stepping into spending $$$ on outlets, I would start with amp and preamp. Then sources. Last would be switches and routers. I'm sure someone is going to say the outlet to the digital backbone is the most important. That is only my off the cuff thoughts on where the quickest gains may be. I am really a novice at outlets. The Furutech was pushed on me by a friend. Some friend. Hes going to cost me $1000 in outlets when its all done.

 

[Chrisl]

To my ears buying more (copper contact) R1's would give you better sonic results than the (brass contact) Hubbel/Shunyata. The Furutech GTX-D and ETI Legato (also direct plated copper) are the other two I would recommend. I had two GTX-D Gold and two ETI Legato Gold outlets installed in my Bybee Wire Stealth power conditioner (I loathe the cool, clinical sound of Rhodium plating). The gold plated ETI Legato is more neutral sounding than the slightly warm Furutech, and is my favorite of the three. My dedicated 20A line terminates in an R1. I would replace it with a Legato if it would work with the Oyaide WPC-Z cast aluminum frame and carbon fiber cover (highly recommended) but according to the dealer it won't fit without "modifications". Note that Furutech makes a similar alluminum/carbon fiber base/cover for their GTX-D outlets.

FYI: https://eti-research.com/connector/legato-ac-receptacle/

To my ears buying more (copper contact) R1's would give you better sonic results than the (brass contact) Hubbel/Shunyata. The Furutech GTX-D and ETI Legato (also direct plated copper) are the other two I would recommend. I had two GTX-D Gold and two ETI Legato Gold outlets installed in my Bybee Wire Stealth power conditioner (I loathe the cool, clinical sound of Rhodium plating). The gold plated ETI Legato is more neutral sounding than the slightly warm Furutech, and is my favorite of the three. My dedicated 20A line terminates in an R1. I would replace it with a Legato if it would work with the Oyaide WPC-Z cast aluminum frame and carbon fiber cover (highly recommended) but according to the dealer it won't fit without "modifications". Note that Furutech makes a similar alluminum/carbon fiber base/cover for their GTX-D outlets.

FYI: https://eti-research.com/connector/legato-ac-receptacle/

Pricewise,

To my ears buying more (copper contact) R1's would give you better sonic results than the (brass contact) Hubbel/Shunyata. The Furutech GTX-D and ETI Legato (also direct plated copper) are the other two I would recommend. I had two GTX-D Gold and two ETI Legato Gold outlets installed in my Bybee Wire Stealth power conditioner (I loathe the cool, clinical sound of Rhodium plating). The gold plated ETI Legato is more neutral sounding than the slightly warm Furutech, and is my favorite of the three. My dedicated 20A line terminates in an R1. I would replace it with a Legato if it would work with the Oyaide WPC-Z cast aluminum frame and carbon fiber cover (highly recommended) but according to the dealer it won't fit without "modifications". Note that Furutech makes a similar alluminum/carbon fiber base/cover for their GTX-D outlets.

FYI: https://eti-research.com/connector/legato-ac-receptacle/

The R1, legato, GTX-D are all similar in price.

To my ears buying more (copper contact) R1's would give you better sonic results than the (brass contact) Hubbel/Shunyata. The Furutech GTX-D and ETI Legato (also direct plated copper) are the other two I would recommend. I had two GTX-D Gold and two ETI Legato Gold outlets installed in my Bybee Wire Stealth power conditioner (I loathe the cool, clinical sound of Rhodium plating). The gold plated ETI Legato is more neutral sounding than the slightly warm Furutech, and is my favorite of the three. My dedicated 20A line terminates in an R1. I would replace it with a Legato if it would work with the Oyaide WPC-Z cast aluminum frame and carbon fiber cover (highly recommended) but according to the dealer it won't fit without "modifications". Note that Furutech makes a similar alluminum/carbon fiber base/cover for their GTX-D outlets.

FYI: https://eti-research.com/connector/legato-ac-receptacle/

The R1, legato, GTX-D are all similar in price. The Legato and GtxD looks best. The NCF R is getting up there. Though I will have the budget of four R1’s ($700) for audio outlets. One for the stereo amp I have right now (I can do mono later if I upgrade). and one for the preamp. Plus, I also have to get outlets for my two subwoofers, analog (TT and phonostage), digital server LPS, and Paul Hynes Sr-4 LPS
Total of 8 devices, including the amp and pre. I’ll have to work out a strip later to accommodate things like switches and routers.

For HT 2 amps and HT processor I’ll need two outlets (separate budget). Maybe even one for the TV

 

[Chrisl]

Sorry about the multiple quotes. I didn’t know how to fix it.

Rex, i’m glad on the same page about component ranking and these outlets

 

[Cellcbern]

Did I miss? Is the Legato plated, or just copper. Seems to be the same copper as Furutech. Different case. Does not have any treatment?? Surprises me that Tedd (Can we say his name!!!) Wouldn't brag about quantum treatments and the plating.

It is available with either gold or rhodium plating.

 

[Kingrex]

It is available with either gold or rhodium plating.

Choices choices. I hate having to decide.

 

[Cellcbern]

H

How much for the Legato?
I would not say Rhodium is cool and clinical. I find the one I put in to be full bodied with more bass and body than the brass based cryo treated hubbell.
I don't know that gold may not color the sound more than rhodium. Plating will color the sound. Its a old debate over what is the best coating.

Note that a search reveals that a number of forum members have posted over the years about their dislike of the sound of rhodium plating and their attempts to rid their system of it. Note also that many top tier cable makers (e.g., Allnic, Ansuz, Argento, Audioquest, Bocchino, Espirit, Goebel, Hemingway Audio, Ikigai, Lessloss, Nordost, Shunyata, Stage III Concepts, Vertere, Westminster Lab....etc. don't offer rhodium plated connectors.

 

[Kingrex]

Note that a search reveals that a number of forum members have posted over the years about their dislike of the sound of rhodium plating and their attempts to rid their system of it. Note also that many top tier cable makers (e.g., Allnic, Ansuz, Argento, Audioquest, Bocchino, Espirit, Goebel, Ikigai, Lessloss, Nordost, Shunyata, Vertere, Westminster Lab....etc. don't offer rhodium plated connectors.

I don't disagree. But I would add, as many people have said they don't like the sound of gold either. So its a catch 22. I wish they would make just copper and not plate at all. But they worry about oxidation. Although they will put silver on many connection ends such as speaker and interconnect. That seems to oxidize faster and with a more apparent sonic signature than copper alone. And Deoxit G100 on fresh metal does a very good job at retarding oxidation for many years.

I sort of wonder why no one is plating with Nickel. Maybe they are. I don't read about cables very often. I don't know of any duplex that are pure copper with a nickel plate. Nickel is more conductive than rhodium and tin. I believe it does not react with copper. It oxidizes very slow.

 

[Cellcbern]

I don't disagree. But I would add, as many people have said they don't like the sound of gold either. So its a catch 22. I wish they would make just copper and not plate at all. But they worry about oxidation. Although they will put silver on many connection ends such as speaker and interconnect. That seems to oxidize faster and with a more apparent sonic signature than copper alone. And Deoxit G100 on fresh metal does a very good job at retarding oxidation for many years.

I sort of wonder why no one is plating with Nickel. Maybe they are. I don't read about cables very often. I don't know of any duplex that are pure copper with a nickel plate. Nickel is more conductive than rhodium and tin. I believe it does not react with copper. It oxidizes very slow.

Allnic and AAI use nickel plated conductors.

 

[Kingrex]

So 2 use Nickel. Not like its widely adopted. Plating copper has been contentious for a long time as pertains to its sonic impacts. I don't see the argument rhodium is inferior becauee as many people post they don't like it as those that post they don't like gold. They both get the bad end of a stick. And then there are the silver enthusiasts that only have its high conductiveity to hang a hat on. Ignoring how fast it can oxidize. I hate to admit it. But less negative chatter is heard about longstanding Tin plating.

 

[Cellcbern]

So 2 use Nickel. Not like its widely adopted. Plating copper has been contentious for a long time as pertains to its sonic impacts. I don't see the argument rhodium is inferior becauee as many people post they don't like it as those that post they don't like gold. They both get the bad end of a stick. And then there are the silver enthusiasts that only have its high conductiveity to hang a hat on. Ignoring how fast it can oxidize. I hate to admit it. But less negative chatter is heard about longstanding Tin plating.

I've seen no evidence that plating copper is "contentious" - it has been commonplace for the better part of a century. You don't see articles about it in the audio press and it isn't a big issue on this (or any) forum. A handful of manufacturers offer bare copper connectors along with their range of plated ones, but most don't. The list of top tier cable makers I provided (which is most of them) use a mix of gold (about half), silver, and exotic combinations (e.g., palladium and platinum) plating - no rhodium. If you look at the eight brands of cables that world leading dealer Audio Exotics offers only two offer rhodium connectors. Note that since silver oxide is conductive (unlike copper oxide) a little tarnish until you have time to polish it is not a big problem. I've been an audiophile for almost 60 years and based on all the listening I've done I prefer the sound of gold plated connectors over everything else, and with the cables I use at least there is no loss of detail or unnatural warmth. To my ears gold, some of the combinations like Hemingway's palladium and platinum over copper, and tinned copper are best at conveying timbre and tonality and the natural warmth of music. Haven't seen tin plated AC connectors but Western Electric's tin plated copper signal wires were legendary which is why Duelund produced a modern version of them. The late Bill Thalman used Duelund DCA tin plated hookup wire in modifying my Pathos TT, and Bache founder/designer Greg Balman used it in his upgrade of my speakers. It is incredibly resolving and natural sounding in both applications. Note also that Pink Faun developed their own tin plated copper conductors for use in their highly regarded digital cables, link to a review below:

FYI:

Digital Cables compared – USB and Ethernet

In order to assess a high-end digital cable, one needs to refer to a standard. But what defines the baseline? And how do USB and Ethernet cables compare to the traditional S/PDIF and AES/EBU cables?

www.hifi-advice.com

Excerpt: "....For me and my aforementioned system, the Pink Faun Digital Interlink LAN achieves what I previously thought impossible for an ethernet cable to do: a smoother, richer sound with more fully-developed textures and tonality while retaining 100% of the standard CAT6 cable’s resolution and 95% of its transient speed and attack. Yes, the standard cable remains slightly tighter and slightly more immediate but it is also rather dry and comparatively musically much less involving....".

 

[Kingrex]

I think I am going to back away from Hubbell. I have been a longstanding advocate. But there are a lot of other options that are not much more. I was talking to a mentor about a new cord he sent me. We had a conversations over gold and rhodium. In short, he said, any outlet that is brass is not going to sound good if you have rhodium attached to it. This may be a reason people don't like rhodium ends on power cords. They may be plugging them into outlets that are brass. He said gold will mix just fine with rhodium. So will pure copper.

As far as sonics, he said gold is a little softer and forgiving. Rhodium more percussive and fast. But Rhodium is less forgiving. As in, gold will mix with most anything, so you can't really go wrong. Rhodium wont mix with brass. It will mix with rhodium, gold or pure copper. Very few outlets are pure copper. Most all have a coating. Just which will sound best in your system is what I meant by contentious. Not plating copper per say. The sonic characteristic of the plating and what you are going to do to your systems voicing. That is the contentious side of plating.

I may try a Legato. It sounds like a good outlet. The benefit of the Furutech is the case material (NCF) that withstands static built up. I am not sure how much an issue that is with a duplex. A cord on a floor, especially carpet, yes, static is an issue. Can that migrate up a cord and to a duplex. Maybe. Can a plastic outlet cover and duplex case pick up static. Sure. Why not. How much???? I have no idea.

Furutech and Legato are both $180 for gold. Furutech Rhodium is $280.
I have a rhodium duplex with power cords that have gold ends. My amps have never sounded better. They destroy the ching cheng cord going into a hubbell. That is a dead horse in my book. So bad. So thin. Sounds sort of quick, but its lacking body and weight and has a dry irritation to it.
I am not using a Oyaide in the wall to plug the new power cord into. I am going to get a Furutech gold to try in its place. Maybe a rhodium. Not sure. One or the other.

 

[Chrisl]

I'm going to go with the Legato (for amp, preamp, and analog) as well Rex. In the end, I ran 8 g to10 g on a Eaton silver plated copper ground bus. The NQ panel was too expensive as we needed money to remodel our master bath in the rebuild. I haven't found a way to join the 8 to 10g wire. I just got all the wire installed yesterday. No twist, too much work and time. I still have to work on the panel itself before wiring that up. Perhaps not the most ideal, but should be a nice upgrade for me in the end. So Thanks Rex and this forum for well timed advice!

 

[Kingrex]

It will be excellent chris. And i'm glad you didn't twist romax. That's not good for it and doesn't really do anything.
I changed the stock power cord going to the Torus, as well as the outlet in the wall, from a hubble to an Oyaide I had sitting around.

A very noticeable change. I think the biggest piece of what it removes is a little bit of semblance that may comes from the brass. As well as tin platings, that in put on most commercial grade products.

 

[Chrisl]

Thanks Rex! Here are two options I found for connecting the 8 to 10.

 

[Cellcbern]

Thanks Rex! Here are two options I found for connecting the 8 to 10.

FYI:

 

[John T]

Where do you use the Furutech outlets? Is there a common device to implement more expensive outlets? just curious.

I use Furutech NCF Rhodium through out my system. With the Taiko Extreme, (soon the Olympus I hope) subwoofer stacks, and network I use Furutech Gold. I have heard so many people say how much they hate Rhodium. I won't even bring the subject up with Marty. My system is not clinical in the least, and I wouldn't call the Gryphon Mephisto a warm sounding amp. More neutral than anything. The Solution 727 is also straight to the point. I recently had Chris Embers here to help me set up a turntable. He's never heard my system. He said some of the finest tonality he has heard. So I never understood the dislike over rhodium...

 

[Cellcbern]

I use Furutech NCF Rhodium through out my system. With the Taiko Extreme, (soon the Olympus I hope) subwoofer stacks, and network I use Furutech Gold. I have heard so many people say how much they hate Rhodium. I won't even bring the subject up with Marty. My system is not clinical in the least, and I wouldn't call the Gryphon Mephisto a warm sounding amp. More neutral than anything. The Solution 727 is also straight to the point. I recently had Chris Embers here to help me set up a turntable. He's never heard my system. He said some of the finest tonality he has heard. So I never understood the dislike orer rhodium...

My dislike of Rhodium is based on dozens of head to head comparative listening tests over many years, including tests of the same cables with rhodium and non-rhodium connectors, and blind listening tests with members of my audiophile club.

 

[John T]

My dislike of Rhodium is based on dozens of head to head comparative listening tests over many years, including tests of the same cables with rhodium and non-rhodium connectors, and blind listening tests with members of my audiophile club.

I'm not disputing what you have found, I'm only explaining what I have found in my system. Your far from the first person to share their dislike of rhodium...

 

[Chrisl]

If I were to crimp, I’d rather use these

 

[Kingrex]

Basic idea how I tag a wire on. This is an excellent way to stack 10s on a branch fed from a AFCI. AFCI will only take one #10. You keave a long end that goes into the breaker and start C clamping wires to the main trunk. Picture is a simple splice. I like the conductors touching. I am not as much a fan of a end to end barrel.