OmniMic vs XTZ Recommendations

[Grooves]

Hi Gang,
Having just found WBF and I read till my eyes bled and could not find any recent updates for posts made a while back re: software for meas. room acoustics. I am looking at diving into this subject of room acoustics, knowing little to begin with. If I had the time and patience, I might go after REW but since I would have to buy all items necessary and I only plan on 2-channel listening with no DSP, or SW ( may add SW later)a. Getting REW up and running might be a bit much in $ and frustration (from what I've read). I have it down to either of the two programs mentioned above.
I have a living room that has serious reflection issues and some bass issues as well, but really its the HF the really has bothered me for years. I have a decent gear and want it to sound BETTER than it does now, yet it is the living room and while I have a very understanding wife I would guess there are limits.
OmniMic looks intriguing and may offer a few things that XTZ doesn't (?). Any help would be great.

 

[RUR]

Hi Grooves,

I own both Omnimic and XTZ and each has strengths and weaknesses... For identifying bass issues, both provide FR analysis and decay, though XTZ has limited resolution vs. the Omnimic. For identifying mid/high frequency reflection issues, it's best to use the Envelope Time Curve (ETC) function to identify and locate spurious peaks caused by those reflections, and this is available only on the Omnimic. If you'd like to read an easy primer about desirable listening room characteristics which may help put things in perspective, acousticians Nyal Mellor and Jeff Hedbeck have created a nice summary which may be found here.

REW really isn't more expensive than XTZ or Omnimic and provides much more flexibility/functionality. Unfortunately, it also has a much steeper learning curve.

Bottom line: I'd purchase the Omnimic as a first step, and move on to REW or similar later, if needed.

Ken

 

[Bruce B]

Well I started off with REW.... hey, it's Free. There are some tutorials on YouTube as well. With the help of a few, I'm trying to get my room to that last 1-2%. You can read about it HERE. I also have Smaart v7, which I'll tackle as soon as I conquer REW

Where are you at in the "Great Northwest"? Near Seattle?

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I own both Omnimic and XTZ and each has strengths and weaknesses... For identifying bass issues, both provide FR analysis and decay, though XTZ has limited resolution vs. the Omnimic.

The newer XTZ II Pro has a better mic and improved resolution.

If you'd like to read an easy primer about desirable listening room characteristics which may help put things in perspective, acousticians Nyal Mellor and Jeff Hedbeck have created a nice summary which may be found here.

Agreed. A good source of info.

OmniMic looks intriguing and may offer a few things that XTZ doesn't (?).

While that is true, so is the converse. XTZ offers the generation of corrective filters as well as the testing of filters and XTZ II adds a neat facility for time-aligning subs with the other speakers. Also, the use of discs for test signals gives Omnimic greater potential but, in use, I find it more clumsy than having the program generate and control the stimuli.

IMHO, it is a question of what one needs from the test set. REW is much more powerful than either but is not plug-and-play. I tend to use XTZ II Pro much more readily and often than either of the others.

 

[RUR]

Hi Kal,

How high does the resolution go with the new XTZ II Pro?

Does XTZ now do ETC?

Thanks!

 

[Grooves]

Well I started off with REW.... hey, it's Free. There are some tutorials on YouTube as well. With the help of a few, I'm trying to get my room to that last 1-2%. You can read about it

Hi Bruce,
I live north of Seattle and commute in for work.

 

[Grooves]

The newer XTZ II Pro has a better mic and improved resolution.

Agreed. A good source of info.

While that is true, so is the converse. XTZ offers the generation of corrective filters as well as the testing of filters and XTZ II adds a neat facility for time-aligning subs with the other speakers. Also, the use of discs for test signals gives Omnimic greater potential but, in use, I find it more clumsy than having the program generate and control the stimuli.

IMHO, it is a question of what one needs from the test set. REW is much more powerful than either but is not plug-and-play. I tend to use XTZ II Pro much more readily and often than either of the others.

Kal,
When people mention filters doesn't that only apply when using some type of DSP? Do filters help you decide what type of room treatment to use?

Do either XTZ or OmniMic allow you to utilize their equipment if you wanted to try REW? I saw some mention about this on another site dated 2010 or 2011, but never found the answer.

My biggest problem, that I know of, is the mid HF-HF frequency area. Acoustical jazz, folk, etc., at moderate volumes are fine. Things fall apart, get aggressive when I play rock (excluding many poorly recorded rock, jazz-fusion or especially classical symphonic works, (many re-issue RCA Living Stereo LP's sound bright to me) and the music goes from low or mid volume to loud. Violins (violins in general always sound aggressive and brighter than they should), trumpets, get hard, bright and overall HF composure is lost. This has plagued me for years and has forced me to tune my system more towards the warm side, (which I prefer anyway, but got me into tubes!). While my system has changed slowly over the years the prevailing top end problems persist. I will tell you great (sad story) as an example. I had a Benz Ruby 2 for a number of years. It was my first Benz and I bought it for its reputation of being warmer on the top. NEVER heard it. Later, I picked up a Benz LP and sold the Ruby 2 to a friend (who has a much better sounding room). While the LP was better sounding, had better HF control I still proved I had problems to tackle. This was never so evident as when I listened to my friends system with my Ruby 2 and my jaw hit the floor. I never heard my cartridge sound that good ever. The mid-top was so sweet sounding. All I could do was just listen and enjoy and go home "hound-dogged." So, now I have finally come to that time when I have to get my room under control. I see a big learning curve tsunami headed my way.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Kal,
When people mention filters doesn't that only apply when using some type of DSP? Do filters help you decide what type of room treatment to use?

DSP or an analog/digital parametric EQ but, no, it does not make any suggestions for room treatments.

Do either XTZ or OmniMic allow you to utilize their equipment if you wanted to try REW? I saw some mention about this on another site dated 2010 or 2011, but never found the answer.

Dunno but neither provide any mic calibration data.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Hi Kal,

How high does the resolution go with the new XTZ II Pro?

Does XTZ now do ETC?

Thanks!

1. 1/12 octave
2. No.

 

[Nyal Mellor]

Hi Grooves,

I own both Omnimic and XTZ and each has strengths and weaknesses... For identifying bass issues, both provide FR analysis and decay, though XTZ has limited resolution vs. the Omnimic. For identifying mid/high frequency reflection issues, it's best to use the Envelope Time Curve (ETC) function to identify and locate spurious peaks caused by those reflections, and this is available only on the Omnimic. If you'd like to read an easy primer about desirable listening room characteristics which may help put things in perspective, acousticians Nyal Mellor and Jeff Hedbeck have created a nice summary which may be found here.

REW really isn't more expensive than XTZ or Omnimic and provides much more flexibility/functionality. Unfortunately, it also has a much steeper learning curve.

Bottom line: I'd purchase the Omnimic as a first step, and move on to REW or similar later, if needed.

Ken

Hey Ken

Have you updated your xtz software - all owners of the original room analyzer can download and install the latest Pro software version - see here. Quite a few updates incl. a SPL meter, the alignment tool that Kal mentioned and double the frequency resolution in the bass. Note the old Room Analyzer's mic is specified at +-3dB whereas the new mic and hardware is +-1dB.

The waterfall graph on the full range tab gives you info on level of reflections vs direct sound and spectral consistency. Certainly it is better than a straight ETC which because it is spectrally blind (provides no info on frequency content of reflections) can get you into trouble...oh look there's a peak on the ETC, let's kill it by using a thick absorber mentality.

 

[RUR]

Hey Ken

Have you updated your xtz software - all owners of the original room analyzer can download and install the latest Pro software version - see here.

Hi Nyal,

I haven't since no one in the AVS thread could confirm that it wouldn't brick my original model XTZ - I should have simply called or emailed you. Turns out my XTZ is generally "on the road" as I attempt to get folks interested in actually measuring their systems. Right now it's in San Francisco, but I'll update it as soon as it returns home. Thanks!

As regards using the ETC in Omnimic, I first find the offending peak using full frequency, then look through the various pass bands in order to isolate the frequency band of interest. As we discussed some months back, what it won't do is to smooth the response or to overlay ETC's from L/R or various pass bands (all as per your paper), and I'll need ARTA or REW in order to do this.

 

[Nyal Mellor]

Hi Nyal,

I haven't since no one in the AVS thread could confirm that it wouldn't brick my original model XTZ - I should have simply called or emailed you. Turns out my XTZ is generally "on the road" as I attempt to get folks interested in actually measuring their systems. Right now it's in San Francisco, but I'll update it as soon as it returns home. Thanks!

As regards using the ETC in Omnimic, I first find the offending peak using full frequency, then look through the various pass bands in order to isolate the frequency band of interest. As we discussed some months back, what it won't do is to smooth the response or to overlay ETC's from L/R or various pass bands (all as per your paper), and I'll need ARTA or REW in order to do this.

Hi Ken, no danger of it 'bricking' your XTZ. It's new software that resides on your PC, there is no firmware to download to the actual measurement hardware. The new hardware is, in my opinion, much better than the old. Where the old felt a little 'plasticky' the new ones are solid. The separate mic on the XTZ Pro kit makes it much better since you can separate it from the soundcard and walk it around the room to find nulls and the like

 

[Kal Rubinson]

The new hardware is, in my opinion, much better than the old. Where the old felt a little 'plasticky' the new ones are solid. The separate mic on the XTZ Pro kit makes it much better since you can separate it from the soundcard and walk it around the room to find nulls and the like

Brief review coming in May issue of Stereophile.

 

[Nyal Mellor]

Brief review coming in May issue of Stereophile.

Looking forward to it Kal, the XTZ guys mentioned it!