On Cables

[ddk]

Yes, there are new cable designs engineered for special applications that didn't exist in the past but the production process remains more or less the same. Whatever ones stance and preference on cables fact remains that wire production is mostly an industrial process beyond the purview of audio private labels, of course aside from simple solid wires that one can even draw manually if needed. The same conductors are in the manufacturer's OEM brands, pro audio companies use them as well as audiophile brands. Main difference I see in the pro and audiophile world is in dressing up and pricing otherwise it's often same or similar conductors. If you believe that foam cushioning, fishnet tights, shiny baubles or RCAs the size of a man's hand some equates to technical innovation or somehow imbues these "audiophile" categorized wires with magical qualities, you're deluding yourself. You can never transform the imbued sonic qualities of these industrial products with stage makeup.

david

 

[MarkusBarkus]

Blue Jeans is closely related to Iconoclast. Do you have any experience with either of the Iconoclast interconnects?

Hi Ron,

My working understanding with the Iconoclast ICs is that *Belden* makes the cable and *Blue Jeans Cable* assembles them, producing finished products, which are sold under the *Iconoclast* name. I own several pair and I like them. I have found Bob Howard of Iconoclast to be very helpful with my projects:
bhoward@iconoclastcable.com

I am sure he would be useful determining whether one of their cables would make sense for you, given your specific requirements.

For reference, I have attached an image of the test report that accompanied one of the sets I use. Good Luck!

 

[DaveC]

Yes, there are new cable designs engineered for special applications that didn't exist in the past but the production process remains more or less the same. Whatever ones stance and preference on cables fact remains that wire production is mostly an industrial process beyond the purview of audio private labels, of course aside from simple solid wires that one can even draw manually if needed. The same conductors are in the manufacturer's OEM brands, pro audio companies use them as well as audiophile brands. Main difference I see in the pro and audiophile world is in dressing up and pricing otherwise it's often same or similar conductors. If you believe that foam cushioning, fishnet tights, shiny baubles or RCAs the size of a man's hand some equates to technical innovation or somehow imbues these "audiophile" categorized wires with magical qualities, you're deluding yourself. You can never transform the imbued sonic qualities of these industrial products with stage makeup.

david

That is pure irony coming from a guy who will sell you a tt and amps for around a half-mil.

Your characterizations are both untrue and derogatory, unfit for further comment.

 

[microstrip]

Ron also mentioned master built cables. What do your calculations tell you about the cost of a 15 m run of top Masterbuilt ICs?

Why should I know the price of top Masterbuilt ICs?

If you are really interested you should ask the people in this forum who have connections with Masterbuilt.

 

[PeterA]

Why should I know the price of top Masterbuilt ICs?

If you are really interested you should ask the people in this forum who have connections with Masterbuilt.

I only asked you Francisco because you did your calculations and provided the cost of the other cables.

According to my calculation around $26500 for a 15m IC ...

 

[Elliot G.]

I have the same feeling about the Cardas Clear Beyond interconnect.

you own VTL electronics and Gryphon speakers one would think you would want to see what both of those companies use to listen to their products IMO. I sell speakers and cables designed by the same person to work together as a system. Mixing cable brands and types makes absolutely no sense to me at all. How can one quantify anything like that?
If it was me I would ask Luke and Bea what they use and what they suggest for a very long run with the specific electronics you own.
I have no dog in this fight at all but the logic or lack of seems particularly strange.

One thing for sure a 50 foot set of interconnects is un resellable and will have to be cut down and reterminated to ever get rid of them. That is fact.

 

[microstrip]

This is from real world living. I have 30 feet cables of very expensive brand with network box and also brand with super good material of wire and sleeve. But now i am using really cheap studio cables. They sure sound different. Does my sound turn into shit now using studio cables? None of people who listened to my system said it sucked. I even left expensive cables hanging pretending I am using them. What do I do with those long expensive custom length cables? They are in the box somewhere in my storage. I CANNOT SELL THEM. NO BODY BUYS THEM. TOO LONG. TOO EXPENSIVE FOR THEM. You buy special long cable you are stuck with them. BAD INVESTMENT. PERIOD.

Then probably you were unhappy and got the wrong cables - I had no problem selling my 25 feet long Transparent Audio Opus MM2 for a very decent price. Surely cables devaluate more than typical electronics or speakers - but phono cartridges even more.

BTW, usually cable manufacturers will modify the length of a cable for a fee provided they are not Grey imports.

 

[microstrip]

I only asked you Francisco because you did your calculations and provided the cost of the other cables.

Yes, I was addressing cables of a brand I have real experience with, not the Masterbuilt.

 

[ddk]

That is pure irony coming from a guy who will sell you a tt and amps for around a half-mil.

Your characterizations are both untrue and derogatory, unfit for further comment.

Attacking me only proves your weak position @DaveC not change facts!

david

 

[DaveC]

Attacking me only proves your weak position @DaveC not change facts!

david

I surely will have no impact on the fantasyland you live in David. Your entire post was an attack, but frame it however you like. Everyone can see what you're doing here is just spewing more of the same 'ol ddk nasty and mean-spirited gibberish.

 

[ddk]

I surely will have no impact on the fantasyland you live in David. Your entire post was an attack, but frame it however you like. Everyone can see what you're doing here is just spewing more of the same 'ol ddk nasty and mean-spirited gibberish.

Nothing personal about you in my post, the shoe must fit or you'd argue the facts instead you're biting at my ankles.

david

 

[PeterA]

This thread is listed in Ron’s review forum. Perhaps in a few months when the system is up and running, Ron will embark on a cable comparison and eventually share with us his listening impressions of various alternatives at different price points.

I for one am very interested in reading about Ron’s new system in his new listening room and how it all comes together and eventually sounds. I find it all pretty exciting, from the specific gear choices, to the set up process, to the room context and eventual listening impressions.

 

[DaveC]

Nothing personal about you in my post, the shoe must fit or you'd argue the facts instead you're biting at my ankles.

david

Who claimed anything was personal? You're the one who brings that up and complains about it all the time. Everything is "personal" with you David. You did make a bunch of derogatory and false statements, that's what I'm addressing.

And argue the facts with you, lol. You have facts the same way conspiracy theorists have facts.

 

[ddk]

Who claimed anything was personal? You're the one who brings that up and complains about it all the time. Everything is "personal" with you David. You did make a bunch of derogatory and false statements, that's what I'm addressing.

And argue the facts with you, lol. You have facts the same way conspiracy theorists have facts.

Good, we established that there wasn’t anything personal in my post, then why are yours personal?

Specifically which of one my statements is false and why? Prove me wrong instead of barking and diverting.

david

 

[Tango]

Then probably you were unhappy and got the wrong cables - I had no problem selling my 25 feet long Transparent Audio Opus MM2 for a very decent price. Surely cables devaluate more than typical electronics or speakers - but phono cartridges even more.

BTW, usually cable manufacturers will modify the length of a cable for a fee provided they are not Grey imports.

I have been very happy sir. Life has been treating me well. Wrong cable? Not really. They did their job as claim. Expand my exposure and learning of audio gears. But it was just a bad investment. You are an intelligent scholar you should understand that I was giving my experience of 30 feet cables to reflect how it could be with 50 feet cable in Ron's case. Very different from your case of 25 feet.

 

[microstrip]

I have been very happy sir. Life has been treating me well. Wrong cable? Not really. They did their job as claim. Expand my exposure and learning of audio gears. But it was just a bad investment. You are an intelligent scholar you should understand that I was giving my experience of 30 feet cables to reflect how it could be with 50 feet cable in Ron's case. Very different from your case of 25 feet.

I was mainly reacting to your BOLD TEXT regrets and presenting my perspective. Something I can't sell after I enjoyed and do not want to keep is a wrong acquisition for me. And sorry can't see a real difference in electrical behavior between a 25 and 30 feet cable.

Should I also call you Sir and refer to your qualities and intelligence every time we disagree about something?

(...) I CANNOT SELL THEM. NO BODY BUYS THEM. TOO LONG. TOO EXPENSIVE FOR THEM. You buy special long cable you are stuck with them. BAD INVESTMENT. PERIOD. (...)

 

[DaveC]

Good, we established that there wasn’t anything personal in my post, then why are yours personal?

Specifically which of one my statements is false and why? Prove me wrong instead of barking and diverting.

david

Once again, Your characterizations are both untrue and derogatory, unfit for further comment.

 

[ddk]

Once again, Your characterizations are both untrue and derogatory, unfit for further comment.

But you already commented and still are when you say they’re untrue, you can’t even get this right. Let’s see what’s untrue about my comments.

Yes, there are new cable designs engineered for special applications that didn't exist in the past but the production process remains more or less the same.

Fact #1

Whatever ones stance and preference on cables fact remains that wire production is mostly an industrial process beyond the purview of audio private labels, of course aside from simple solid wires that one can even draw manually if needed.

Fact #2

The same conductors are in the manufacturer's OEM brands, pro audio companies use them as well as audiophile brands. Main difference I see in the pro and audiophile world is in dressing up and pricing otherwise it's often same or similar conductors. If you believe that foam cushioning, fishnet tights, shiny baubles or RCAs the size of a man's hand some equates to technical innovation or somehow imbues these "audiophile" categorized wires with magical qualities, you're deluding yourself. You can never transform the imbued sonic qualities of these industrial products with stage makeup.

david

Fact #3 if this is untrue then you claim you have magic spells?

david

 

[DaveC]

But you already commented and still are when you say they’re untrue, you can’t even get this right. Let’s see what’s untrue about my comments.


Fact #1

Fact #2

Fact #3 if this is untrue then you claim you have magic spells?

david

Over the years I've learned you are never interested in a genuine conversation, all you care about is yourself and promoting your "Natural Sound (TM)" system and related merchandise.

You seriously think your tired old tropes are going to lure me into wasting my time responding to crap like " if this is untrue then you claim you have magic spells?" That's condescending, derogatory, offensive and absolutely unworthy of my time responding to it. It's unfortunate I feel I need to correct your outright lies, I do so out of concern for your agenda of obfuscation on the subject of cables, room treatments, etc. The fact is people DO often need to learn more about cables and your lies and misguidance are harmful to other people in actually achieving their objectives. Most people want to hear what's on the recording rather than bounce sound all over the room and vibrate their components using steel racks for a million dollars.

 

[PeterA]

Why should I know the price of top Masterbuilt ICs?

If you are really interested you should ask the people in this forum who have connections with Masterbuilt.

No worries, I can do it. Ron wrote that he plans to explore Masterbuilt Ultra ICs. Either XLR or RCA, in 2018 according to TAS, cost $4,000/m. Ron needs 15 meters, so his ICs would have cost $60,000 back then. Likely more today.