Pass or Bryston with Magnepans?
- Thread starter Hasse
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Yes, that blue LED is seductive for sure. Some people don’t like the blue lights. While they don’t bother me, someone use to make some stickers that cover them. Blue though goes with my system. The VAC also has blue light and the J. Sikora TT power supply does as well.
Of course, the sound is the main thing. And the Pass sound is much more seductive then their lights. IMO Nelson Pass is a genius. While the technology on some other amps have in some respects passed some of his designs by, the Pass sound has been rather consistent through the decades. I first heard the Pass .5s in Atlanta, GA. Now I own the .8s. While they aren’t identical they are kissing cousins IMO. Nelson has a great ear. I enjoy Pass amps. I like their sound DNA.
However, while I thoroughly enjoy what I presently hear thru the Pass, I desire to make sure I’m not missing anything as well. So, I’m doing a comparison soon between my 260.8s and a set of EMM Labs MTRX2 monos. EMM thru a dealer will allow you to try their amps. Nice! A friend (with some help) is also bringing over his Boulder integrated later for me to try. If I enjoy the Boulder more, then I will get a set of monos from them. For synergy the EMM monos may be the best sound (I have a EMM DAC, PRE and a Transport is literally on the FedEX truck headed towards my dealer now).
So, time will tell. Until the testing is done I’m resting in Pass nirvana.
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Looking forward to hear your thoughts on the Boulder vs Pass comparison.
I will compare the Pass int 250 against the Boulder 866 this week, just to hear the basic differences in house sound. Can’t afford the Boulder monos though.
The 866 against the 250 would be an awesome test! Please let us know how it goes. I’m sure it will be different, but how different? I have a friend who has owned Pass, Audio Research and now Boulder. He loves his Boulder Integrated.
Today I compared the Boulder 866 against the int 250.
Dealer had no Maggies so we used his Diptyque DP140, a Frensh magnetostatic speaker with ribbon tweeter.
In this setup the Boulder sounded more controlled and tight in the bass but compared to the int 250’s more fleshed out sound with a fuller more powerful bass the 866 was a bit restrained and the soundstage was to my ears smaller
Even though the Boulder monos you are interested in are much better than the integrated I’m not sure it would be a good match with Magicos which imho need a warmer, fuller sounding amp.
Perhaps you already have the perfect amp, try before you decide
Thanks. I’m not sure either. I have some EMM monos coming hear the end of Feb / beginning of April to try out. I’m not sure about them either. I really enjoy the Pass. There synergy is great with Magico. Thanks again for your report. Very helpful.
I have Maggie 3.7s in HT system with center channel and "woofer" extensions and small Maggie rears. I use a Bryston 5 channel amp and it does an excellent job. I have been a huge Bryston fan for so long I have passed the 20 year warranty on some of their products. Having said that I think if you got a Bryston, Pass or Magtech it is unlikely you would be unhappy. I also think any sound differences if any would be minimal. These are all amps designed to provide outstanding sound into almost any load. I drive electrostatics which are difficult and all would be stable with a Maggie which is a relatively easy load. Some issues I consider are warranty - Bryston 20 years, Pass 5 years, Magtech I believe is Lifetime. Service is another issue - Bryston you ship it too them they fix it and you send it back. The Magtechs are the usual Roger Sanders clever design. It is modular so most repairs he can send you a replacement module that you can replace yourself - no shipping costs for a heavy amplifier. Both Sanders and Bryston have the best customer service I have encountered in audio. Pricing may be a consideration. Here in Canada from lowest to highest - Magtech, Bryston, Pass. I have no recent experience with Pass but I had my Threshold 400a rebuilt by one of the old Threshold engineers and it powers my legacy system so I have a great respect for Pass amps.
Personally if I were looking for a new amp I would consider a Benchmark. Check out the review on Audioscience review. I have not had the pleasure of hearing it personally but have talked to enough I trust to overturn any reservations about "class d" The wave of the future.
Just a couple of comments about the Maggie 3.7s. They are lovely speakers (I bought them) But as with all speakers they have plus and minuses.
I realize you seem to be using them in stereo and I in 5.1 but I do listen to stereo on them. Firstly they are a bit bass shy. If you listen to small groups they are great. If heavy rock or organ music - not so much. Some have indicated difficulty pairing them with a subwoofer which is something you might want to consider. I do not find them as accurate and musical as my electrostatics. Although fairly directive not so much as ESL's - and many do not like directive speakers.
As stated I could live happily with any of the amps mentioned.
Personally if I were looking for a new amp I would consider a Benchmark. Check out the review on Audioscience review. I have not had the pleasure of hearing it personally but have talked to enough I trust to overturn any reservations about "class d" The wave of the future.
Just a couple of comments about the Maggie 3.7s. They are lovely speakers (I bought them) But as with all speakers they have plus and minuses.
I realize you seem to be using them in stereo and I in 5.1 but I do listen to stereo on them. Firstly they are a bit bass shy. If you listen to small groups they are great. If heavy rock or organ music - not so much. Some have indicated difficulty pairing them with a subwoofer which is something you might want to consider. I do not find them as accurate and musical as my electrostatics. Although fairly directive not so much as ESL's - and many do not like directive speakers.
As stated I could live happily with any of the amps mentioned.
I'm always amused by people who think amplifier "A" is "so much better" than amplifier "B". I auditioned 20.7i's (I ended up buying 3.7i's) with the D'Agostino M400's ($160,000/pair) because that happens to be what they were hooked up to at my dealer. After about an hour of listening (and when they determined I was PROBABLY an actual customer, rather than a "looky-loo"), I convinced them to "Please connect the Maggies to something that didn't cost 1/4th the price of my house!"
Same speakers; same MQA's on Tidal, but with a $6000 Parasound JC5 instead of the $160,000 D'A's. The sound? So close that, if you held a gun to my head, I couldn't have told you which sounded BETTER. (Or, indeed, if there was really any NOTICEABLE difference between them.)
I ordered 3.7i's and a JC5. But, I'm actually lucky that there was a 6 month waiting period (supply-chain BS) on the JC5 because my dealer loaned my an A21+ ($3000) to keep me happy (with my 1.7i's) while waiting for the new speakers and amp. I called him a few hours later and changed my order to 3.7i's and an A21+ ---- it sounded 99.99999993% as good as the JC5.
Any of you reading this: if you have so much money that you use $100's as bathroom tissue, then I certainly don't care how much or what you spend it on. But maybe I'll reach someone who doesn't want to WASTE money on something that is totally unnecessary. Please don't fall into the "it's (MUCH) more expensive, therefore; it MUST be much better" trap. There's a HUGE difference between a $300 amp and a $3000 amp, but a miniscule (if at all) difference when you go to $30,000 --- or $300,000.
Just to show how nuts SOME audiophiles can be (in fairness: ANY fringe group of ANY large group of people): you've all probably heard of these huge "aftermarket" power cords that go between the wall socket and your amplifier. These 3 - 6 foot long "horse-penis-diameter" cords ((for example: the $14,000 (!) Audioquest NRG Dragon)) are supposed to somehow make the amplifier sound better. (?) Nevermind that anywhere from 20 - 300 FEET (or more - if you have a really big house) of #12 solid-conductor "house" wire connects that same outlet with the breaker panel. (For the uneducated: #12 is a SMALL diameter wire - not much thicker than a toothpick.) So: how, exactly, is a few feet of big wire following upwards of 300 feet of toothpick-size wire supposed to help??? Does the amplifier "know" the last few feet of power cord supplying its transformer is much bigger, so it needs to "try" harder to sound good??
....Yeah: I thought is sounded pretty stupid, too.
....I tried to come up with some analogies, and the best ones I could come up with are: 1) it's like adding a gallon of distilled water to a lake to improve its water quality; 2) It's like wearing a dust mask to stop a microscopic germ; 3) It's like putting chain-link fence around your home to stop mosquitos.
Best advice: DON'T try to drive your Maggies with a $99 receiver, but DO find the price-point of diminishing returns.
I love my 3.7i / A21+ combination. Give it a try... Saving money is not a bad thing.
Same speakers; same MQA's on Tidal, but with a $6000 Parasound JC5 instead of the $160,000 D'A's. The sound? So close that, if you held a gun to my head, I couldn't have told you which sounded BETTER. (Or, indeed, if there was really any NOTICEABLE difference between them.)
I ordered 3.7i's and a JC5. But, I'm actually lucky that there was a 6 month waiting period (supply-chain BS) on the JC5 because my dealer loaned my an A21+ ($3000) to keep me happy (with my 1.7i's) while waiting for the new speakers and amp. I called him a few hours later and changed my order to 3.7i's and an A21+ ---- it sounded 99.99999993% as good as the JC5.
Any of you reading this: if you have so much money that you use $100's as bathroom tissue, then I certainly don't care how much or what you spend it on. But maybe I'll reach someone who doesn't want to WASTE money on something that is totally unnecessary. Please don't fall into the "it's (MUCH) more expensive, therefore; it MUST be much better" trap. There's a HUGE difference between a $300 amp and a $3000 amp, but a miniscule (if at all) difference when you go to $30,000 --- or $300,000.
Just to show how nuts SOME audiophiles can be (in fairness: ANY fringe group of ANY large group of people): you've all probably heard of these huge "aftermarket" power cords that go between the wall socket and your amplifier. These 3 - 6 foot long "horse-penis-diameter" cords ((for example: the $14,000 (!) Audioquest NRG Dragon)) are supposed to somehow make the amplifier sound better. (?) Nevermind that anywhere from 20 - 300 FEET (or more - if you have a really big house) of #12 solid-conductor "house" wire connects that same outlet with the breaker panel. (For the uneducated: #12 is a SMALL diameter wire - not much thicker than a toothpick.) So: how, exactly, is a few feet of big wire following upwards of 300 feet of toothpick-size wire supposed to help??? Does the amplifier "know" the last few feet of power cord supplying its transformer is much bigger, so it needs to "try" harder to sound good??
....Yeah: I thought is sounded pretty stupid, too.
....I tried to come up with some analogies, and the best ones I could come up with are: 1) it's like adding a gallon of distilled water to a lake to improve its water quality; 2) It's like wearing a dust mask to stop a microscopic germ; 3) It's like putting chain-link fence around your home to stop mosquitos.
Best advice: DON'T try to drive your Maggies with a $99 receiver, but DO find the price-point of diminishing returns.
I love my 3.7i / A21+ combination. Give it a try... Saving money is not a bad thing.
I don’t know why I’m doing this but I have to say you’re wrong. I’m not saying most expensive anything is better but I would say the difference in price for the most part is nuance and getting you closer to how live music really sound. As a person that loves music I spent a lot of time auditioning different gear, fromPrimaLuna, QuickSilver, ARC, Dan D’Agostino, LAMM, VTL, Pass Labs, BAT, Parasound, Constellation, Naim, Linn, Ayre, CAT and McIntosh. I agree some are over hyped but a lot also depend on the total sum of the system. Meaning speakers, electronics, room and cables. My system cost me roughly $110k and I’m extremely happy with it. To me it’s extremely satisfying and worth every dime. I don’t believe you can look at audio and make statements that if it’s cost a certain amount of money that it’s marginally better than something less expensive. To each his own but let’s do what makes one happy. I will never feel certain way about how one chooses to satisfy his music thirst.
We've shared many volleys back-and-forth and I have always enjoyed talking with you. Hope you are doing well.
FYI: IF I REALLY wanted a $100K+ system, I would buy one. Though I'm not "made of money", we MEN will ultimately do what we REALLY WANT to do (within reason).
But: here's my argument: As you know; I have a "loud" system and a "good" system. My "good" system: 3.7i's, sub, Parasound A21+, and Bluesound node absolutely blows me away (and any guests that have heard it) -- and it cost about $12K. Yes: 12!
I HAVE - many times - auditioned $100K+ systems; hell: some closer to a $million "all-in" ---- and I was not / am not sufficiently blown away BEYOND my simple system to really WANT them. Truth time: SOME of these megabuck systems DIDN'T SOUND AS GOOD AS WHAT I HAVE! (The Vandersteins / D'Agostinos, for example...)
((The true test / bullshit eliminator: if I won the lottery, what hifi system would I own? Guess what? EXACTLY what I DO own. (Plus a yacht and a helicopter...))
Please re-read what I said, specifically: "if you have so much money that you use $100's as bathroom tissue, then I certainly don't care how much or what you spend it on. But maybe I'll reach someone who doesn't want to WASTE money on something that is totally unnecessary."
What defines "waste"? To me, it is spending money for which there is not enough benefit to justify the expense. For YOU, $110K is NOT a "waste" , since: A) you can obviously afford it, and B) you obviously feel that the benefit to you justifies the expense. For ME, it would be a waste of $98K...
((And for some (probably: most) people on this - or any - forum, $110K would be so out-of-reach that it isn't really a factor - just makes for good talk - and nutures the human need to feel important))
My "loud" system (LaScalas) is still being driven by early 1980's NAD 2140's amps bridged mono. WHY? Because throwing perfectly good amplifiers in the trash would be a waste. IF and WHEN they die, I'll drive the LaScalas with an A21+...
Nice talking to you!
FYI: IF I REALLY wanted a $100K+ system, I would buy one. Though I'm not "made of money", we MEN will ultimately do what we REALLY WANT to do (within reason).
But: here's my argument: As you know; I have a "loud" system and a "good" system. My "good" system: 3.7i's, sub, Parasound A21+, and Bluesound node absolutely blows me away (and any guests that have heard it) -- and it cost about $12K. Yes: 12!
I HAVE - many times - auditioned $100K+ systems; hell: some closer to a $million "all-in" ---- and I was not / am not sufficiently blown away BEYOND my simple system to really WANT them. Truth time: SOME of these megabuck systems DIDN'T SOUND AS GOOD AS WHAT I HAVE! (The Vandersteins / D'Agostinos, for example...)
((The true test / bullshit eliminator: if I won the lottery, what hifi system would I own? Guess what? EXACTLY what I DO own. (Plus a yacht and a helicopter...))
Please re-read what I said, specifically: "if you have so much money that you use $100's as bathroom tissue, then I certainly don't care how much or what you spend it on. But maybe I'll reach someone who doesn't want to WASTE money on something that is totally unnecessary."
What defines "waste"? To me, it is spending money for which there is not enough benefit to justify the expense. For YOU, $110K is NOT a "waste" , since: A) you can obviously afford it, and B) you obviously feel that the benefit to you justifies the expense. For ME, it would be a waste of $98K...
((And for some (probably: most) people on this - or any - forum, $110K would be so out-of-reach that it isn't really a factor - just makes for good talk - and nutures the human need to feel important))
My "loud" system (LaScalas) is still being driven by early 1980's NAD 2140's amps bridged mono. WHY? Because throwing perfectly good amplifiers in the trash would be a waste. IF and WHEN they die, I'll drive the LaScalas with an A21+...
Nice talking to you!
Same here I hope you’re doing well. Again I’m never going to say what is better as that is extremely subjective or that anyone needs to spend X amount of coin to achieve great sound. However I do believe some high-end gear bring you closer to what the artist and recording engineer intended it sound. Again it could subtle nuances or in some case real extreme difference. I had LAMM Reference amps and preamp and for me it was the best gear I’ve ever heard. Music just sounded right. The only and I mean only reason I got rid of it was due to my eventual speaker choice and actual power limitations for the 20.7’s. The VTL gear cost a tad more and sounds great but to my ears doesn’t do what the LAMM’S did as far as producing the realism and soul of music. I could play any genre and it just sounded right. This is like any other hobby it can be crazy, but I would be careful with how YOU use the word waste. Because as with anything it’s one persons right to define or deem what makes them happy and how much they‘re willing to invest to achieve it. Cheers!
Well there's the reason you don't hear any improvements with better amps. You're bottlenecking the system's capabilities with that Bluesound Node. Get a good streamer in the system and you'll start hearing improvements with better amps.
I had a Node 2 and Node 2i running into a Schiit Bifrost 2 Multibit. They both sounded okay. Upgraded to a Raspberry Pi4 for a 5th of the price and it was a huge step up in performance. Now I'm running an Auralic Altair G1, another huge improvement in sound.
You're the only one I've heard that thinks going backwards is a good thing. Oh well, as long as it makes you happy. I just feel sorry for those 3.7i's.
Just to add 50cts worth;
Although the Pass Labs X and XS series are quite good in every sense of the term amplifier... the XA series takes the design of Class A bias to another level. The high current capability is much higher, along with highly stable voltage, these power supplies are designed to handle great lengths of stress and they don't flinch one bit!
So overall, if you're thinking of using Pass Labs, I would very highly recommend their XA series amps.
Bryston is great, another well designed output stage, and high current power supplies, no issues handling difficult loads. However, their musicality and finesse are not matched by Pass Labs XA series gear. Just my 50cts opinion.
Cheers, and enjoy those finest tunes!
Woof! RJ
Although the Pass Labs X and XS series are quite good in every sense of the term amplifier... the XA series takes the design of Class A bias to another level. The high current capability is much higher, along with highly stable voltage, these power supplies are designed to handle great lengths of stress and they don't flinch one bit!
So overall, if you're thinking of using Pass Labs, I would very highly recommend their XA series amps.
Bryston is great, another well designed output stage, and high current power supplies, no issues handling difficult loads. However, their musicality and finesse are not matched by Pass Labs XA series gear. Just my 50cts opinion.
Cheers, and enjoy those finest tunes!
Woof! RJ
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