Perception, science, engineering and high-end audio
- Thread starter rbbert
- Start date
The thread is not about subwoofers and their need in a 2-ch systembut it has forked in that direction, for now , let me oblige 
Concerning the point about turning off the main and listening to the subs.. This approach wouldn't work very well if you were to turn off for exemple the midrange or the tweeter what you would here would not carry much ambiance either.. You would not hear much of the spatial cues which makes a recording .. You need the whole .. Granted a good portion is carried within the 30 Hz to 15 KHz band. It remains there is more of those cues down below 30 Hz... I would go even further ..unless you measure carefully and cut off everything below 30 Hz, many subs rated at say 30 Hz at -3 dB , will produce a sugnificant amount of lower bass due to room gain, this in most listening room this side of a palace
Now about subwoofers and full range mains.. Audiophiles took a while to warm up to subwoofers... .. HT is repsonsible for the "rise" of subwoofers. In most rooms the best positions for the main in term of smoothness in the bass is not that for good staging , imaging and the rest of the audio spectrum.. That doesn't mean that one cannot find a good, acceptable ,even excellent compromise... It remains a compromise and the ow of physics are working against you , lowering the odds. There come Sbwoofers to the rescue and due to the great work of the people at Harman we know for a fact that more subwoofers = Better bass .. so using subwoofers, with full range fulfills the more subwoofers = better bass theorem, not an axiom, since it is proven.
Several people here are or have used subs with full range main speakers in their system and none are likely to turn off their subs... Steve, mep and many others. I went a little further using the Geddes method which itself a variant of the Harman theorem but in that case the placement of the subs is quasi random not symmetrical as recommended (and demonstrated) by Harman. Geddes calls for (preferably) 3 subs with one in one corner of the room , where it should enjoy maximum room gains boosting the lower end of its range ( in many rooms up to 10 dB down low around 20~30 Hz a major boost) , the second in one side wall in the front half volume of the room and the third off the floor if possible ... on the other side wall always in the front half of the room ... It works and extraordinarily well. For most rooms .. I am not sure I would care to use additional subwoofers with some speakers the Genesis 1.1 comes to mind or the Evo MM7 but for any other speakers that does not use separate woofer columns... I am close to certain that the use of separate subwoofers brings benefits in 98.87% ( ) of cases ... Of course it is not easy and even less plug and play It requires care, patience and a little bit of knowledge ... Last but not least .. in the Geddes method the subwoofers need not be the same: you can use smaller subs for the second and third ..
Concerning the point about turning off the main and listening to the subs.. This approach wouldn't work very well if you were to turn off for exemple the midrange or the tweeter what you would here would not carry much ambiance either.. You would not hear much of the spatial cues which makes a recording .. You need the whole .. Granted a good portion is carried within the 30 Hz to 15 KHz band. It remains there is more of those cues down below 30 Hz... I would go even further ..unless you measure carefully and cut off everything below 30 Hz, many subs rated at say 30 Hz at -3 dB , will produce a sugnificant amount of lower bass due to room gain, this in most listening room this side of a palace
Now about subwoofers and full range mains.. Audiophiles took a while to warm up to subwoofers... .. HT is repsonsible for the "rise" of subwoofers. In most rooms the best positions for the main in term of smoothness in the bass is not that for good staging , imaging and the rest of the audio spectrum.. That doesn't mean that one cannot find a good, acceptable ,even excellent compromise... It remains a compromise and the ow of physics are working against you , lowering the odds. There come Sbwoofers to the rescue and due to the great work of the people at Harman we know for a fact that more subwoofers = Better bass .. so using subwoofers, with full range fulfills the more subwoofers = better bass theorem, not an axiom, since it is proven.
Several people here are or have used subs with full range main speakers in their system and none are likely to turn off their subs... Steve, mep and many others. I went a little further using the Geddes method which itself a variant of the Harman theorem but in that case the placement of the subs is quasi random not symmetrical as recommended (and demonstrated) by Harman. Geddes calls for (preferably) 3 subs with one in one corner of the room , where it should enjoy maximum room gains boosting the lower end of its range ( in many rooms up to 10 dB down low around 20~30 Hz a major boost) , the second in one side wall in the front half volume of the room and the third off the floor if possible ... on the other side wall always in the front half of the room ... It works and extraordinarily well. For most rooms .. I am not sure I would care to use additional subwoofers with some speakers the Genesis 1.1 comes to mind or the Evo MM7 but for any other speakers that does not use separate woofer columns... I am close to certain that the use of separate subwoofers brings benefits in 98.87% (
) of cases ... Of course it is not easy and even less plug and play It requires care, patience and a little bit of knowledge ... Last but not least .. in the Geddes method the subwoofers need not be the same: you can use smaller subs for the second and third ..
The thread is not about subwoofers and their need in a 2-ch systembut it has forked in that direction, for now , let me oblige
Concerning the point about turning off the main and listening to the subs.. This approach wouldn't work very well if you were to turn off for exemple the midrange or the tweeter what you would here would not carry much ambiance either.. You would not hear much of the spatial cues which makes a recording .. You need the whole .. Granted a good portion is carried within the 30 Hz to 15 KHz band. It remains there is more of those cues down below 30 Hz... I would go even further ..unless you measure carefully and cut off everything below 30 Hz, many subs rated at say 30 Hz at -3 dB , will produce a sugnificant amount of lower bass due to room gain, this in most listening room this side of a palace
Thank you Frantz, you said it the way I wanted to say it but I fell short. I have a baby dip at 25Hz that a third sub I suspect could fix. How would it sound? I don't know. I've always had it.
Similar threads
- Locked