Thanks Ralph.
The ground wire in the phono cable is grounded all the way to the head screws that hold the cartridge.
The ground wire in the phono cable is not grounded to the negative power supply pin that powers the tables motor.
The cable powering the motor does not have a ground. It is a 2 wire 20 volt DC.
I was surprised how 2 phono pre can hum so loud when the volume is turned up. While another was dead quiet and my Allnic is very quiet.
I did try moving and changing the power cord. I did try physically moving the phono preamp. I held them in my hand and waved them around the space as far as the cables would allow. This did nothing. And just touching the phono preamps did nothing either.
Thanks Ralph.
The ground wire in the phono cable is grounded all the way to the head screws that hold the cartridge.
The ground wire in the phono cable is not grounded to the negative power supply pin that powers the tables motor.
The cable powering the motor does not have a ground. It is a 2 wire 20 volt DC.
I was surprised how 2 phono pre can hum so loud when the volume is turned up. While another was dead quiet and my Allnic is very quiet.
I did try moving and changing the power cord. I did try physically moving the phono preamp. I held them in my hand and waved them around the space as far as the cables would allow. This did nothing. And just touching the phono preamps did nothing either.
Usually the ground wire is tied to the arm tube since that is a shield for the cartridge wires. Its unusual to say the least (I've worked on thousands of turntables as I put myself through college repairing consumer electronics and never seen that done) to tie it to the hardware that holds the cartridge in place if for no other reason then that means an additional wire must pass by the arm bearings. I would check and see if you have continuity between the chassis of the phono section and the arm tube itself. IMO that's a suspect method of grounding the arm.
The ground wire of the phono had better not be connected to the motor power supply! But its not a bad practice to ground the body of the motor itself to the base of the tonearm- that's what Rega seemed to miss in their design.
From your description (and good work BTW) your phono sections are not sitting in a hum field.
Usually the ground wire is tied to the arm tube since that is a shield for the cartridge wires. Its unusual to say the least (I've worked on thousands of turntables as I put myself through college repairing consumer electronics and never seen that done) to tie it to the hardware that holds the cartridge in place if for no other reason then that means an additional wire must pass by the arm bearings. I would check and see if you have continuity between the chassis of the phono section and the arm tube itself. IMO that's a suspect method of grounding the arm.
The ground wire of the phono had better not be connected to the motor power supply! But its not a bad practice to ground the body of the motor itself to the base of the tonearm- that's what Rega seemed to miss in their design.
From your description (and good work BTW) your phono sections are not sitting in a hum field.
My arm is carbon fiber. Looking underneath, I can see there is a 5th wire soldered to the headshell. I get continuity between the headshell screws and the vertical support pillar holding the arm. And some other metal contact points on the arm. Most of the aluminum parts I do not have continuity, but there may be an anodizing or coating that is inhibiting my probe from getting a reading.
I do not have continuity between the tone arm pillar and the table power supply input.
I have another phono pre to try, but it only works with SUT. I don't have a SUT for my Hana. Not sure I want one. I don't know if I even want a SUT or not. That is a whole set of threads I have read some about. There seems to be a fan club, and a hate mail club.
I have another phono pre to try, but it only works with SUT. I don't have a SUT for my Hana. Not sure I want one. I don't know if I even want a SUT or not. That is a whole set of threads I have read some about. There seems to be a fan club, and a hate mail club.
That's because SUTs block the RFI generated by a LOMC and the capacitance of the tonearm cable. If the phono preamp is sensitive to RFI, the user very well might prefer the SUT because the phono preamp will perform better. But if the phono section is immune to RFI the SUT can easily be seen as degrading the sound.
That's because SUTs block the RFI generated by a LOMC and the capacitance of the tonearm cable. If the phono preamp is sensitive to RFI, the user very well might prefer the SUT because the phono preamp will perform better. But if the phono section is immune to RFI the SUT can easily be seen as degrading the sound.
I know your really precise with words, but do you mean a LOMC and tonearm cable are creating RFI. I thought RFI was induced noise from wifi, phones, radio towers, TV etc. No something a small electrical generator (LOMC) interacting with the connecting power lines (tone arm cable) created.
The LOMC cartridge has an inductance which is in parallel with a capacitance of the tonearm cable. An inductance in parallel with a capacitance is how radios tune stations...
This creates a high Q electrical resonance, usually between 100KHz and 5MHz.
It can go into excitation, activated by the energy of the cartridge despite not being anywhere near the same frequency.
Because of the high Q nature of the resonance, it can be as much as a 30dB peak!
This RFI is injected directly into the input of a phono section. If the phono section isn't designed to deal with this, it can distort and thus not sound right (usually bright). This is why 'cartridge loading' resistors are sometimes used (for phono sections where the designer did not take this phenomena into account) which have the effect of detuning the resonance, thus killing the RFI.
SUTs cannot pass frequencies this high and so block the RFI. For those phono sections that have this issue, the SUT will thus sound better.
I am having the tone arm cables changed in my Vertere SG1 in the next few weeks. Something I have wondered about. I may have them taken from the cartridge tag all the way to the preamp. Not sure yet. I don't like connection points. I am curious how that will change my perception of my current preamp and cartridge.
I have Furutech Silver Arrows ( first version) - RCA-RCA for my VPI Classic 3.
I have JPS Lab Super conductor V - DIN - RCA - 1,50 meter and changed it for Furutech Silver Arrows II - DIN - XLR - 1,50 meter. ( For Technics SL-1000R ).
This last is better than JPS Lab Super conductor V : better separation of voices, better definition of instruments. The saxophone, for example, sounds more real.
The voices are more natural.
In my experience with the Nordost line the TYR always shined as a value/performance over the Valhalla. Agreeing that their line up could sound a bit lean in general to many other cables depending on components, the cable position in the chain, and one’s particular tastes. For me as a signal cable, and especially a tonearm cable (din to RCA) they really do the trick. Very transparent and without smearing perhaps from the dielectric as their’s is virtually air. But I found a huge difference to my liking in performance between the V1 and V2. V2 became a pleasant bit warmer from what I might call neutral, more “musical” presentation, with a smoothness and liquidity that I had never heard from this brand. As a tonearm cable I really preferred the V2 TYR over the Valhalla V1 in my setups. So it all depends…
Were any of the phono cables you tried subjected to a burn-in? Some folks don't believe it makes a difference but it is almost impossible for that to happen by way of wee tiny voltages.
Agreed. Since tonearm (in arm) cable will almost never burn in over a lifetime of regular playing I am one who believes that you have to put a burner on it (I utilize an AudioDharma for years now, they offer a very handy din to micro pin adapter just for tonearms). In my experience it made a positive difference with every tonearm I own. You thought the sound was good, and then you listened after the burn! No comparison.
When I reviewed the Kuzma 4Point with its new jeweled bearings and Kondo tonearm wireI I took it through a burn in process - 96 hours. Then I did the same with my earlier model 4Point and I also did a burn-in on the tonearm wire of my Tri-Planar Mk VII U2-SE. This was using a Hagerman Frybaby with a home made wiring jig to attach to the cartridge clips.
Before and after listening were separated by 4+ days, so there's the audio memory factor. No A/B/A obviously - can't undo the burn-in. I think I heard a positive change but it was small - slightly more open, slightly richer mid-range tonality with the Tri-Planar; slightly better tonality with the 4Points in terms of mid-tone length and holding onto the fundamental longer into a decay, slightly better articulation. I'm more confident of what I heard with the Tri-Planar and the original 4Point, both I've had for years. Fairly subtle differences but audible - and then I was looking for a difference, so ...
I think its worth doing and/or it should not cause harm. I've reviewed a bunch or other cables and pretty consistently notice changes of varying degrees across, say, 90 days, as you describe, so it seems plausible that tonearm wire should be no different - except that the voltage is so tiny it may not ever see what an IC does. I did not know if your Valhalla 2+ was new or used; I recall Nordost and some dealers have a nice burn-in device that they may use on new product or charge for.
Glenn of Aesthetix turned me on to the Frybaby by Hagerman year ago after having my phonostage upgraded to Signature level. Apparently they utilize them on their burn racks before a final listen and shipment. And if it’s good enough for Aesthetix, it’s certainly good enough for me. But because it takes a line level input and converts it to a MC or MM output a tonearm wire burn in might still never resolve a wire transformation in our lifetime. With a line level output I’ve found better results and no damage.
Also, several decades ago I had a SME V tonearm for an AVID Acutus rewired from the internal Van din Hul copper to fairyhair silver by Kondo san himself. It was a good move having taken some of the characteristic darkness out of the SME. Again with my choice of external IC being TYR2 it seemed to be a complimentary match through to the phonostage. But it really came into it’s full bloom and beauty after a session on the AudioDharma. Highly recommended!
Ralph I always love your posts
soo much detail that’s fact based
I wonder how a 5k phono cable fixes so many issues lol
as for burn in reg cables someone did give me an example that can be reproduced
take a given interconnect longer proves a bigger observation
let it settle , what ever time you think is good
then move it around , bend it
step on it
point is it now sounds different
over time it settles back to where it was after burned in
the concept is the wire strands
need to make many tiny connections once again
as for burn in reg cables someone did give me an example that can be reproduced
take a given interconnect longer proves a bigger observation
let it settle , what ever time you think is good
then move it around , bend it
step on it
point is it now sounds different over time it settles back to where it was after burned in
the concept is the wire strands
need to make many tiny connections once again
(emphasis added)
If that is correct then I suspect that the burn-in of any phono cable would be temporary, given the tiny signal that arises from the cartridge.
I made my own from 30awg neotech silver with heavy braid, also tried the Van Damme cable from Farnell, which appears to be pretty good also. I wonder how Van Den Huls Flexicon cable would rate as a phono cable, it has spiral silver plated sheild, aluminum foil and 24awg conductors. not much about it online
I have a Silver Audio "Silver Breeze" phono cable that performs very well for its price. I don't use it because I need a din termination but it is one of those (of many) things that one doesn't want to sell just cause a use for it might come up later. Just another example of audio hoarding!
I made my own from 30awg neotech silver with heavy braid, also tried the Van Damme cable from Farnell, which appears to be pretty good also. I wonder how Van Den Huls Flexicon cable would rate as a phono cable, it has spiral silver plated sheild, aluminum foil and 24awg conductors. not much about it online
(emphasis added)
If that is correct then I suspect that the burn-in of any phono cable would be temporary, given the tiny signal that arises from the cartridge.
Burn-in of phono cables can probably be mainly mechanical settling - the electrical signals are four orders of magnitude lower than a typical CD signal. The electrical field in the dielectric is minimal.
Burn-in of phono cables can probably be mainly mechanical settling - the electrical signals are four orders of magnitude lower than a typical CD signal. The electrical field in the dielectric is minimal.
Hi Atmasphere, i would have no idea, but i twisted the wire and the wires i put into teflon tubing, the braided shield and heatshrink. It cold be high, in another amp i used van damme pro cable 3.6mm so small, 47 core to core, and 152 core to sheild ppm I think Mogami would be lower
