Prudent financial allocation for audio hardware?

[Al M.]

For a BIG SOUND, 700-1000 square feet, with 10 or 12 foot ceilings, if you can swing it. Use the golden ratio for dimensions

Excellent advice. The best sound I have heard so far was in a room of 26 feet wide x 23 ft long x 10 ft high:

Jim's Powerful Sound

www.whatsbestforum.com

The main reasons why it was the best sound (even though not perfect to my taste) were:

1) a large space that allowed for an illusion of the power and dimensions of a full size orchestra, as well as breathing room for a really open sound
2) speakers that could energetically and effortlessly fill the large room. A lot of hyper-expensive but, relative to those, small speakers don't need to apply.

I wish the ceiling had been 12 feet high and the room longer (would have allowed for more depth behind the speakers). If I had the funds I'd probably start with the idea of a 32 feet long, 26 feet wide and 14 feet tall room (the ceiling really has to get out of the way). Or whatever the length has to be at that width for a golden ratio.

For a really good room I'd consider a width of 20 feet the bare minimum, and preferably I would have it much wider, hence the dimensions.

I am very happy and pleased with the sound I have been able to achieve in my room of 24 ft long x 12 ft wide x 8.5 ft high, but it's just too small when it comes to qualifying for a great room.

The relatively low ceiling was a huge problem even with my speakers that are not large at all (they are 4 feet tall). I have found a good compromise with extensive ceiling treatment, but it's still a rather unwanted compromise.

 

[thedudeabides]

To get a bit more philosophical, it's also an empirical and experiential endeavor - you have to listen and try different things. Other people can give you some options to start your journey, but to be truly happy, one has to find their own way. But knowledge - and your bliss - will only come from an exploratory process, not from other guys who have different subjective tastes, different incentives, measure their egos by others preferring what they like, etc...

My suggestion is to go to a big audio show or two.

Once you get a short list of what like, you can pay a visit to a dealer for a more rigorous audition.

Perfect. Nothing else left to say.

 

[Grateful]

Thanks for all the assistance and advice. It’s most appreciated!

 

[caesar]

Much thanks!

Is it truly possible to hear the gear’s capability in a really crappy hotel room? I’m concerned that the identical gear Dan Healy used to create total bliss at Red Rocks may sound like crap in a crappy hotel room. OTOH, I suspect a small part of The Wall of Sound may sound great in a well engineered 1,000 square foot room.

I greatly appreciate you showing me behind the curtain! I have a rather strong financial game and fully understand the incentive, ego, etc. side of most players. Please PM me if you ever desire free financial advice. Again, thanks!

Of course! Good sound is determined by the recording, of course, and your system's ability to render poorer recordings in a way that is enjoyable to you. The latter is completely is subjective.

One of my favorite tests is Hard to Handle from the Phil Zone. It is an audience recording, so no miracles expected. However, if it subjectively sounds ALIVE to me, with good tone and dynamics, so I can enjoy it, I consider it an excellent system, while most audiophiles will consider me NUTS...

As for financial advice, I greatly appreciate it! But I am a product of University of Chicago thinking on the markets. Even hard core behavioral guys like Thaler believe that only 7 percent of people can beat the market. So I stick to all index funds. Interestingly, I taught my parents this, but they strayed once and bought a certain stock for a few grand that turned out to be like winning the lottery; so I get some slack.

Anyways, good luck!

 

[bonzo75]

Much thanks!

Is it truly possible to hear the gear’s capability in a really crappy hotel room?

No shows are usually a waste and will make you often draw false conclusions

 

[Al M.]

No shows are usually a waste and will make you often draw false conclusions

True. Or best, you don't draw conclusions at all if the sound is bad or mediocre. In the few rare instances where the sound is good there's obviously something to it.

 

[Al M.]

One of my favorite tests is Hard to Handle from the Phil Zone. It is an audience recording, so no miracles expected. However, if it subjectively sounds ALIVE to me, with good tone and dynamics, so I can enjoy it, I consider it an excellent system, while most audiophiles will consider me NUTS...

Yes, ALIVE is where it's at, with good tone and dynamics.

 

[GSOphile]

I believe most really good systems of WBF members didn't come to be via a one time system acquisition. If you think you'll get it completely right the first time - probably a natural expectation when one spends a lot of money on a carefully considered purchase - you may be disappointed. You learn from what you have, and your tastes in the sound you're trying to achieve may also evolve. Consequently, if I were in your enviable shoes, I'd start out on the low end of my spend range, with the idea that I will most likely want to upgrade aspects of my system after I've lived with it for a while. I've also found that most (but not all) meaningful upgrades I've made cost significantly more than the original.

 

[dcathro]

Dear Grateful,

You are in an enviable position to be able to both build your room and buy the system of your dreams. I wish you the best of luck, because you have so many choices. Although a bigger budget may suggest that you are guaranteed better sound, in my experience it is not necessarily so.

I have had 3 phases in my audiophile journey:

The first phase, in the mid/late 70s here in Melbourne, Australia, was when I put together my initial system over about 4 years. It was relatively modest system (Thorens/Grace/Supex, Sansui, Canton & Stax) which gave me immense satisfaction for more than 10 years - I didn't know any better.

My second phase was in the early 90's when I was working in Cambridge, England and had serious spending power. I was able to purchase many of the current highly reviewed products by Audio Research, Krell, Levinson, etc, but was never able to get the same level of satisfaction as the first system. It did so many things better, but I was never satisfied.

My third phase has been the last 25+ years, through which I have been fortunate to learn immensely from others. Most importantly, I learned what I like - what is critical to me above all else - and what is less important. In this hobby we are not all agreed on this. I learned that the room is by far the most important component. I learned that system setup and tuning play as big a part as the choice of gear. I learned that everybody has different taste and opinions, and I might find just one or two others who share mine.

Here are a few thoughts/suggestions to consider:

- Get your room right. Do some research to find the right people to build your room in the right manner with the right acoustics.
There are quite a few people on WBF who have had purpose built rooms you could converse with;

- Visit lots of other audiophiles and listen to lots of systems. Maybe join an audio club if there is one in your area;

- Take your time and don't just go and visit dealers and blow your dough (as I did in my phase 2);

- Consider playing with second hand gear. It is a great way of learning about equipment without paying the depreciation fee.
The newest model is not necessarily better than previous ones, even if the mags tell you so!

- Consider starting with a relatively modest system that allows you to explore different approaches - e.g. open baffles, horns, panels, tubes, etc

- Flagship products are not always better than more modest approaches. A Flagship is often one man's vision taken to the extreme.
Sometimes the model or two down is a better option.

Again, best of luck!!!

 

[Grateful]

Dear Grateful,

You are in an enviable position to be able to both build your room and buy the system of your dreams. I wish you the best of luck, because you have so many choices. Although a bigger budget may suggest that you are guaranteed better sound, in my experience it is not necessarily so.

I have had 3 phases in my audiophile journey:

The first phase, in the mid/late 70s here in Melbourne, Australia, was when I put together my initial system over about 4 years. It was relatively modest system (Thorens/Grace/Supex, Sansui, Canton & Stax) which gave me immense satisfaction for more than 10 years - I didn't know any better.

My second phase was in the early 90's when I was working in Cambridge, England and had serious spending power. I was able to purchase many of the current highly reviewed products by Audio Research, Krell, Levinson, etc, but was never able to get the same level of satisfaction as the first system. It did so many things better, but I was never satisfied.

My third phase has been the last 25+ years, through which I have been fortunate to learn immensely from others. Most importantly, I learned what I like - what is critical to me above all else - and what is less important. In this hobby we are not all agreed on this. I learned that the room is by far the most important component. I learned that system setup and tuning play as big a part as the choice of gear. I learned that everybody has different taste and opinions, and I might find just one or two others who share mine.

Here are a few thoughts/suggestions to consider:

- Get your room right. Do some research to find the right people to build your room in the right manner with the right acoustics.
There are quite a few people on WBF who have had purpose built rooms you could converse with;

- Visit lots of other audiophiles and listen to lots of systems. Maybe join an audio club if there is one in your area;

- Take your time and don't just go and visit dealers and blow your dough (as I did in my phase 2);

- Consider playing with second hand gear. It is a great way of learning about equipment without paying the depreciation fee.
The newest model is not necessarily better than previous ones, even if the mags tell you so!

- Consider starting with a relatively modest system that allows you to explore different approaches - e.g. open baffles, horns, panels, tubes, etc

- Flagship products are not always better than more modest approaches. A Flagship is often one man's vision taken to the extreme.
Sometimes the model or two down is a better option.

Again, best of luck!!!

A totally awesome and extremely helpful post!
Thank you, very much, for all your insight and very valuable information!

 

[caesar]

Much thanks!

Is it truly possible to hear the gear’s capability in a really crappy hotel room? I’m concerned that the identical gear Dan Healy used to create total bliss at Red Rocks may sound like crap in a crappy hotel room. OTOH, I suspect a small part of The Wall of Sound may sound great in a well engineered 1,000 square foot room.

My 2 cents on shows, having observed audiophile behavior over many years, is that although the shows are far from ideal, even if something is at 60-70 percent of its potential, people are still drawn to particular gear. The sound speaks to them. They consistently award best of show awards to stuff they like, even if everyone else thinks it’s awful. … and if it’s awful to you, don’t draw an ultimate conclusion either- due to the circumstances …

Once you have a sense for what moves you can start exploring those social networks and doing visits, and you can learn a lot from each “social network of preference”, even if it’s not your ultimate destination