Prudent financial allocation for audio hardware?

[Grateful]

Hi,
Much thanks for all the replies and assistance!
My current system is mostly vintage. It’s very warm, slow and loose on the bottom.

Nestorovic 5AS speakers
‘67 McIntosh 240
‘61 McIntosh c20
APL Denon CDP
Rega TT

I bought the two McIntosh pieces from Steve Hoffman shortly after DCC went down and he needed cash. The 240 is in incredible condition for its age.

I want a modern tube system. I’m thinking DeVore speakers.

 

[Grateful]

with a large budget there is a wide range of right answers. all of which could ring the bell. but also chances to not allow each piece to be optimized.

the question would be one of avoid limiting pieces and have balance and synergy. every piece in the chain needs to be not limiting. for instance with $500k budget one could buy a $200k turntable, but then the rest of the system would need to be able to not restrict that turntable from showing what it can do. and conversely buying a $400k speaker system would then require electronics and sources that could allow that speaker to show what it can do. a tall order.

system development is all about eliminating the weakest link, so you get 100% of what the pieces can do. also, avoiding coloration and strong character is part of the picture as those require balancing pieces and loss of musical essence.

Hi Mike,

Much thanks! Your post appears in harmony with my original question. Allocating heavily to one piece is not prudent. It seems like (excuse me, I’m a finance guy) there should be a prudent allocation range per piece?

If I lower my budget to $100-200k, does that make the allocation ranges substantially easier to recommend?

 

[Another Johnson]

At that level of spend you will have many dealers willing to really work hard to make you happy by setting up demos to find what you really like. My favorite is Paragon Sight and Sound in Michigan (Larry and Richard Marcus). But others will have other good suggestions.

 

[msimanyi]

I think both Mike and Another make good points. YOU will have to do the work to see what excites you, but having the right dealer(s) for that will be quite important. You mention room treatment is not part of your stated budget. What about electrical service, electrical conditioning and cables?

If you haven't budgeted or considered electrical conditioning, I'll encourage you to find a Shunyata dealer to demo some of their products. There are others in the market as well, but The Cable Company has demo programs that are quite good. If you're in the U.S. you might test them in your current system to see how much you like the effect, but really you'll want to test them in the "new" system, whatever that happens to be.

Perhaps let the board know roughly where you're located, so people might suggest some dealers you can consider.

 

[microstrip]

I want a modern tube system. I’m thinking DeVore speakers.

Than you have to get THE ORANGUTAN O/Reference - four piece speaker system to help spending your budget.

The UK distributor strongly recommends a top Devore system using the Jadis SE300b mono block amplifiers. See:

https://www.hifinews.com/content/jadis-jpl-mkiise300b-devore-fidelity-o96-tube-ampspeaker-system

 

[Grateful]

Perhaps let the board know roughly where you're located, so people might suggest some dealers you can consider.

Thanks, I’m in South Texas. I can get to Austin, Houston and San Antonio in 4-5 hours.

 

[bonzo75]

Than you have to get THE ORANGUTAN O/Reference - four piece speaker system to help spending your budget.

The UK distributor strongly recommends a top Devore system using the Jadis SE300b mono block amplifiers. See:

https://www.hifinews.com/content/jadis-jpl-mkiise300b-devore-fidelity-o96-tube-ampspeaker-system

10 to 12w 300bs. 2a3 push pull, types are great match with the O96

 

[Grateful]

10 to 12w 300bs. 2a3 push pull, types are great match with the O96

Paired with an EMT JPA 66 MK3?

 

[thedudeabides]

This will sound crazy but if you don't mind buying used speakers at a ridiculous price that offer full range, extraordinary sound in a small enclosure, look at the Gershman Acoustics Grand Avant Garde on Audiogon. You will always be able to sell and you can easily build a $100K to $200K system around that product if you wish. And alot less if you wish. If ever there was a silly, stupid bargain from a price / performance perspective, this is it. Check out the reviews. They all are over the top. Asking $7,800. New $17K. If you want big, very loud and bombastic, look elsewhere.

To answer your question, prioritize speakers, then source, then preamp /amp. Percentage of total spent will depend on product in each category. Above speaker is a case in point. Don't get stuck on total spent. Cost is not a gurantee of high performance and personal satisfaction. The safe, conservative approach would certainly be to buy all from a dealer who offers a diverse selection, ability for in home audtions and trade in / upgrade options. Let your emotional connection to the music determine the eventual outcome. That's all that matters. Good luck with your journey.

 

[Another Johnson]

I just did back of envelope calculation for my main system. Calculations are based on retail. My system is in the range you initially proposed.

I’m at about 20% for speakers, 25% for amp/preamp, 35% for sources, and 20% for wires, cords, interconnects, and power conditioning. I am very happy with the way my system presents music.

FWIW, the more sources, the smaller the percentage dedicated to speakers or amp and preamp … that’s just how the math works.

And incidentally, referring to another thread, I am done .

 

[Grateful]

I just did back of envelope calculation for my main system. Calculations are based on retail. My system is in the range you initially proposed.

I’m at about 20% for speakers, 25% for amp/preamp, 35% for sources, and 20% for wires, cords, interconnects, and power conditioning. I am very happy with the way my system presents music.

FWIW, the more sources, the smaller the percentage dedicated to speakers or amp and preamp … that’s just how the math works.

And incidentally, referring to another thread, I am done .

Thank you, very much! Your personal allocations (especially, for $250-500k systems) is exactly what I desire. It gives me a reasonable starting point. I realize (for many of the reasons mentioned) my end point may be substantially different.

How many sources do you have?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Hi Mike,

Much thanks! Your post appears in harmony with my original question. Allocating heavily to one piece is not prudent. It seems like (excuse me, I’m a finance guy) there should be a prudent allocation range per piece?

If I lower my budget to $100-200k, does that make the allocation ranges substantially easier to recommend?

objectively the tipping point for not allocating the majority of assets to speakers is the point at which speakers are not limiting. is that $50k? is that $75k? are we considering used speakers? or retail new only?

if we can find a speaker which is comfortable in a $500k system for $75k; now we have the option to get more aggressive on non speaker pieces. it's a matter of subjective opinions about speaker performance. or maybe how full range or large space capable that speaker needs to be.

the right speakers allow the other gear to optimized too. a $200k set of amps needs quite an excellent speaker to justify it's cost in assets. but the right speaker is the first step. speaker asset allocation and perspective is the elephant in the room. and everyone will have their opinion.

at $100k-$200k budget, speaker choices certainly open up and lots of options leaving room for higher level sources and electronics taking up more budget.

 

[thedudeabides]

Hi Grateful, just curious. How and why did you determine the 250 to 500 K system cost range? Is that delta new / msrp or a new / used combo? Do you believe you can't something for less that will satisfy your expectations? And what are your goals / expectations for your new system?

And where were you on Friday March 7th between 6 and 8PM when the murder occurred? Do you have an alibi? Hope you're laughing. Best.

 

[Grateful]

Hi Grateful, just curious. How and why did you determine the 250 to 500 K system cost range? Is that delta new / msrp or a new / used combo? Do you believe you can't something for less that will satisfy your expectations? And what are your goals / expectations for your new system?

And where were you on Friday March 7th between 6 and 8PM when the murder occurred? Do you have an alibi? Hope you're laughing. Best.

Hi,

I was in the downstair’s closet with a hatchet. Obviously, I’m completely innocent!

My $250-500k budget was based almost solely on how much I could afford/was willing to spend on this hobby.

The only thing I’m truly comfortable buying used is fine art. Sure, I could have bought my Blackwing used for substantially less, but I don’t know how the original owner truly treated it.

I may be satisfied with a $100-200k system. Like my wife always tells me, “you know nothing, John Snow”. In this case, she’s actually right.

My simple goal is to close my eyes and have Jerry Garcia and his guitar in the same room with me. It’s been waaaaaay too long since that happened last!

 

[Al M.]

Hi,

I was in the downstair’s closet with a hatchet. Obviously, I’m completely innocent!

My $250-500k budget was based almost solely on how much I could afford/was willing to spend on this hobby.

The only thing I’m truly comfortable buying used is fine art. Sure, I could have bought my Blackwing used for substantially less, but I don’t know how the original owner truly treated it.

I may be satisfied with a $100-200k system. Like my wife always tells me, “you know nothing, John Snow”. In this case, she’s actually right.

My simple goal is to close my eyes and have Jerry Garcia and his guitar in the same room with me. It’s been waaaaaay too long since that happened last!

Mike already alluded to the issue, but how large is your room? This will be a decisive factor for potential speaker choices and required amplification.

 

[Grateful]

Mike already alluded to the issue, but how large is your room? This will be a decisive factor for potential speaker choices and required amplification.

Whatever you guys suggest! We’re building our dream house, next year, and I’m going to have a deadicated listening room. I have one now which is ~ 13’ x 17’ and was designed by Rives Audio.

 

[thedudeabides]

Hi,

I was in the downstair’s closet with a hatchet. Obviously, I’m completely innocent!

Not! We got your DNA on the handle and the victims blood on your shirt.

My $250-500k budget was based almost solely on how much I could afford/was willing to spend on this hobby.

That's a really bad reason.

I may be satisfied with a $100-200k system. Like my wife always tells me, “you know nothing, John Snow”. In this case, she’s actually right.

With the right gear in the the right room with no hardware mismatches (aka synergy), more than satisfied. Your wife is correct. You married an insightful person.

My simple goal is to close my eyes and have Jerry Garcia and his guitar in the same room with me. It’s been waaaaaay too long since that happened last!

You don't need anything near that amount of investment to accomplish that. And the "learning curve" is invaluable to help you reach your final destination. The Gershman speaker I previously mentioned will easily satisfy that goal and a hell of alot more with the appropriate ancillary gear. In short, you need someone knowledgeable to guide you that has common sense. And you won't necessarily find them on WBF. Be aware of one thing up front regarding member input. This is a very "boutique" website. No criticism, just fact. More thoughts to follow if you want. Your call. Too much to say and put down in writing. Send me a PM (envelope next to the bell / start new conversation) if you want to pursue further. Best. Gordon

 

[Grateful]

Not! We got your DNA on the handle and the victims blood on your shirt.

That's a really bad reason.


With the right gear in the the right room with no hardware mismatches (aka synergy), more than satisfied. Your wife is correct. You married an insightful person.

Well, it’s not my fault the victim kept running into my fist and getting blood on me!

So, there’s not a large marginal improvement in sound going from a $200k system to a $400k system? I like money, I’m certainly not trying to waste it!

 

[caesar]

Hi,
I’m interested in building my “dream audio system” and willing to spend $250-500k in total. This does not include the room and treatment costs. All of my recordings are vinyl or digital. In your opinion, what percentage of my audio hardware budget should be allocated to speakers, amp, preamp, vinyl playback, digital playback, etc.?

Hi Grateful,
I hope you do not get bullied and discouraged from your goals and dreams by uber opinionated folks. Everyone has their own goal and their journey.


What 3-5 systems have you heard in your life that brought you bliss and put you in a state of flow?

 

[Ron Resnick]

I want a modern tube system. I’m thinking DeVore speakers.

Devore Orangutan Reference and EAR or other tube amps . . . and you will have a system that is very easy to listen to -- and a lot of money left over.