That is good news. In late March Kenji told me there were no more clocks.
________________________________________________________________________________
Alan
Industry Affiliation: Co-owner, Scaena Loudspeakers
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Reasonably priced dual-master clock (10Mhz) Rb and OCXO....
- Thread starter SCAudiophile
- Start date
That is good news. In late March Kenji told me there were no more clocks.
________________________________________________________________________________
Alan
Industry Affiliation: Co-owner, Scaena Loudspeakers
Dear SCAudiophile,
I am using Esoteric Grandioso K1 with my old G-0s rubidium clock leftover from when I used P-03U/D-03.
Now considering changing clocks to 10MHz / 50 Ohm Cybershaft Premium with 50 Ohm clocking cable.
Given your comprehensive experience would you consider this would yield a better performance using a good 50 Ohm BNC clocking cable with my K1 than the G-0s Rubidium Clock?
Cheers
Chris
Chris,
There is more than 1 question here inherent in what you are asking as far as I can see. As an aside, I've also owned the P-03U/D-03/G-0s combination and later P-03U/D-03/G-03x, both with very good results.
The 1st question is whether a later clock than the G-0s would serve you well; the answer to this is very much yes, regardless of manufacturer. The G-0s was Esoteric's first commercial product introduction around a Rubidium oscillator-based word clock. It features 75-outputs and frequency word-clocking at a more precise rate that onboard PLL-based designs of the time able to pump out 44.1 and 48.0 frequency baseline and multiples for audio as well as video. It could also put out a 100Mhz 'master' clock pulse as well. It has an additional feature where you could drive it with a 10Mhz 'master clock signal to provide atomic clock sync if you happened to have a more expensive cesium-oscillator atomic clock just laying around (in those years)
. It was a very good unit and all its connects are 75-ohm as you many already know. The G-0s had higher phase noise than today's Rb and OCX word and master clock units and therefore more jitter. In short, yes, by moving away from that clock you could achieve a more musical result assuming you picked a modern clock (Esoteric, DCS or Cybershaft or others) with typically lower phase noise and better Allen Variance stats that the G-0s had way back when. It's oscillator has also aged quite a few years and unless it's been back to Esoteric, it's precision is also not quite what it should be due to the time that has passed.The K1 you have is spec'ed ideally for 50-ohm input while the G-0s outputs 75-ohm. According to the Esoteric's specs, the K1 can take in 75-ohm but I think it is more ideally suited for a 50-ohm pure connect so getting a clock that outputs 50-ohms (your 2nd inherent question) is a move you'd like to make and then making sure you have a proper 50-ohm cable. This does make a difference according to the testing mentioned here by several audiophiles and 2 manufacturers (Shunyata and Cybershaft).
Which clock....the 3rd question underlying your post is 'which clock'; I happen to love the OCX-based ultra low phase noise effects of Cybershaft 10Mhz master clocking with a proper 50-ohm cable. The Esoteric G1 and G-01 are also in this league but Rubidium based, the G1 having pure 50-ohm outputs so that (G1) is another viable option for you to explore.
Overall my response is, 'yes' make the switch for the above reasons. My preferred configurations for you to think about are;
1. Cybershaft OP13 or better Ultra Premium (may have to wait for it) 10Mhz Master Clock with Shunyata Alpha or Sigma "CLOCK50" cable
2. Esoteric Grandioso G1 10Mhz master clock, with Shunyata Alpha or Sigma level "CLOCK50" cable
Don't mix 75-ohm cables where 50 are called for no matter what your read; it does make a difference!
Need to keep this somewhat brief as I'm working this response in while on the job....feel free to IM me with a phone# and I'd be happy to give you a call and talk live.
Hope this helps....
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Marpa,
There is more than 1 question here inherent in what you are asking as far as I can see. As an aside, I've also owned the P-03U/D-03/G-0s combination and later P-03U/D-03/G-03x, both with very good results.
The 1st question is whether a later clock than the G-0s would serve you well; the answer to this is very much yes, regardless of manufacturer. The G-0s was Esoteric's first commercial product introduction around a Rubidium oscillator-based word clock. It features 75-outputs and frequency word-clocking at a more precise rate that onboard PLL-based designs of the time able to pump out 44.1 and 48.0 frequency baseline and multiples for audio as well as video. It could also put out a 100Mhz 'master' clock pulse as well. It has an additional feature where you could drive it with a 10Mhz 'master clock signal to provide atomic clock sync if you happened to have a more expensive cesium-oscillator atomic clock just laying around (in those years)
The K1 you have is spec'ed ideally for 50-ohm input while the G-0s outputs 75-ohm. According to the Esoteric's specs, the K1 can take in 75-ohm but I think it is more ideally suited for a 50-ohm pure connect so getting a clock that outputs 50-ohms (your 2nd inherent question) is a move you'd like to make and then making sure you have a proper 50-ohm cable. This does make a difference according to the testing mentioned here by several audiophiles and 2 manufacturers (Shunyata and Cybershaft).
Which clock....the 3rd question underlying your post is 'which clock'; I happen to love the OCX-based ultra low phase noise effects of Cybershaft 10Mhz master clocking with a proper 50-ohm cable. The Esoteric G1 and G-01 are also in this league but Rubidium based, the G1 having pure 50-ohm outputs so that (G1) is another viable option for you to explore.
Overall my response is, 'yes' make the switch for the above reasons. My preferred configurations for you to think about are;
1. Cybershaft OP13 or better Ultra Premium (may have to wait for it) 10Mhz Master Clock with Shunyata Alpha or Sigma "CLOCK50" cable
2. Esoteric Grandioso G1 10Mhz master clock, with Shunyata Alpha or Sigma level "CLOCK50" cable
Don't mix 75-ohm cables where 50 are called for no matter what your read; it does make a difference!
Need to keep this somewhat brief as I'm working this response in while on the job....feel free to IM me with a phone# and I'd be happy to give you a call and talk live.
Hope this helps....
Many thanks for your considered and comprehensive reply SCAudiophile – your advice is very much appreciated and mirrors my instincts especially regarding 50ohm v 75-ohm transmission.
The G1 is certainly at the top of my list but as all reading this will appreciate, is a much more expensive prospect than any of the Cybershaft options.
I will need to consider what is available from Cybershaft and weigh up my options carefully but definitely look forward to hearing the benefits of pairing my K1 with a better matching 10MHz clock whether it is based upon Rubidium oscillator or OCXO controlled.
Many thanks again for taking the time to reply. I am in Australia so coordinating phone conversations can be problematic with 12-13 hour time differences bit I will certainly message you in any case.
Cheers
Chris
Chris,
You are very welcome; I'm glad that I could help in some way. The G1 is a fine device and there may be a used one up for sale if I heard
correctly from another member recently here or elsewhere. The G-01 is I believe based upon the same clocking module and while not
pure 10 Mhz (it provides other outputs at frequency multiples which is useful to many), if you wanted Esoteric, that is a good way to
get one of their clocks of very high quality if it's not the G1.
The Cybershaft OCXO-based implementation not only tests/specs out well and better in many regards depending upon model, I also
find them tremendous price/performance ratio products and my system has never sounded better once I filled the 10Mhz clocking
need and moved to Shunyata SIGMA Clock50 cables (the Alpha level is also fantastic).
I've heard that as of right now, no new production is happening at Cybershaft so you'll have to either pick one up on the used market
or wait for what I'm told are impending new products due out (estimate) a bit later this year. I have no more solid details than that
and am also personally eager to hear what's planned and when it will be available.
Happy Listening!
Cheers Mark,
Yes there is a S/H 'Premium' Cybershaft OCXO available now in Australia that I am keen on and will use with a Shunyata Sigma Clock-50 but its not at the top of the Cybershaft range – although I expect will still likely outperform my G-0s?
Yes I gathered zero new Cybershaft stock available for now from Japan.
Sad but true.
I am not in desperate hurry and yes I agree they seem to represent extraordinary value.
Many thanks again,
Chris
SC = have you any feedback / insight on how the Mutec Ref 10 performs as a Reference Clock? Getting decent press on various forums...
Beyond this option CH Precision new T1 peaks my curiosity as well..
Beyond this option CH Precision new T1 peaks my curiosity as well..
Unfortunately no personal experience.....many people speak highly of it but I've never had hands-on experience.
Check out Computer Audiophile forum (sorry WBF....don't mean to point away!); there are many people there who deal with
clocking products as well and if memory serves, several have used/are using the Mutec Ref10.
BTW..I echo your comment on the CH Precision T1; those who have looked at it including some great coverage on PF
state it is one hell of a product!
It will be interesting to see what comes out of Cybershaft later this year; I'm told some of the brainstorming done and custom aspects
of my current clock from a co-design point of view are being thought about for more general release however there is rumor of a few
very interesting new features & capabilities that might give more expensive lines a 'moment of real pause...'!
Unable to obtain new Cybershaft product, we reached out to Mutec. Truthfully, we had no experience with a 10 Mhz clock and we were unsure on how one might supplement/ improve our 4 box Vivaldi system. Initial listening after 36 hours of clock connection was very favorable followed by a two week vacation, with our Ref 10 doing whatever it does when plugged in while we were away.Recognizing that absence can possibly make one fonder, the sound was nevertheless to our ears, much improved over the initial improvement identified after the initial 36 hours.Highly recommended with Vivaldi.
Alan
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Industry affilition: Co-owner, Scaena Loudspeakers
Alan
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Industry affilition: Co-owner, Scaena Loudspeakers
The test results and full specs on the phase noise behavior, resulting jitter, etc...on the Mutec are great specs (in master clocking applications the
specs are definitely relevant and the 1st place to scrutinize likely performance); many who own it rave about its overall impact on achieving music
listening. No doubt your experience was the same! If Cybershaft did not exist and hit a particular chord (pun intended) with me in terms of features,
price, quality of service, etc.... the Mutec would definitely get tested and be a contender as it is an amazing product!
On a related note: the last time I heard your top of the line speaker offerings (AXPONA 2011,..I don't get out much
) the setup was incredible; you'vegot a great line and put together truly world-class demo systems what from what I remember hearing!
The test results and full specs on the phase noise behavior, resulting jitter, etc...on the Mutec are great specs (in master clocking applications the
specs are definitely relevant and the 1st place to scrutinize likely performance); many who own it rave about its overall impact on achieving music
listening. No doubt your experience was the same! If Cybershaft did not exist and hit a particular chord (pun intended) with me in terms of features,
price, quality of service, etc.... the Mutec would definitely get tested and be a contender as it is an amazing product!
On a related note: the last time I heard your top of the line speaker offerings (AXPONA 2011,..I don't get out much
got a great line and put together truly world-class demo systems what from what I remember hearing!
Thank you for your kind comments. That was the Atlanta AXPONA 2011. Always difficult to get good sound at shows and Atlanta was a success. We showed with BAT and
we received several Best Sound accolades including from John Atkinson of Stereophile. Your own system appears to be impressive.
I wish we had discovered the 10 MHz clock earlier. It is that good.
Regards,
Alan
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Industry Affiliation: Co-owner, Scaena Loudspeakers
Yes it is......going back to the 2011 show in Atlanta for a minute, didn't you also have an extensive Critical Mass or some other rack setup?
As you can tell, the entire setup and the sound left an impression!
As you can tell, the entire setup and the sound left an impression!
Great memory. Critical Mass rack and amp stands.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Alan
Industry Affiliation: Co-owner, Scaena Loudspeakers
FYI All,....It seems that Kenji at Cybershaft has been VERY busy and he has just introduced several new products, check out website
www.cybershaft.jp (use Chrome to get translation);
- an ULTIMATE version with frequency adjustment, high & low level output choice and THREE (3) outputs that via dip switches can
be set to output either 50 or 75 ohm impedance so I think this is the ultimate clock for your needs. It can be ordered in varying
OCXO levels from OP14 all the way up to OP20. For my money, I'd suggest OP17, 18, 19 or 20 but inventory on the 20 is noted
to be extremely low. It also uses several of the features in my OP21 custom build from a while back including the copper base
plate internally and other nifty features. This is a 3-output top of the line master clock that should meet the needs of many
people looking for 50-ohm or 75-ohm output in a reference class 10 Mhz device..
- a LIMITED2 version with frequency adjustment, high & low level output choice and ONE (1) output that via dip switch can
be set to output either 50 or 75 ohm impedance so I think this is the ultimate clock for your needs. It can be ordered in varying
OCXO levels from OP14 all the way up to OP20. For my money, I'd suggest OP17, 18, 19 or 20 but inventory on the 20 is noted
to be extremely low. It also uses several of the features in my OP21 custom build from a while back including the copper base
plate internally and other nifty features. This only has one output but has all the other new features...
I'm several years in with Cybershaft clocks in my system and have had my OP21 for some time now. I have owned and evaluated
several other top-end master clocks; not only for the money but also for the sound of the system, these are the best I have heard!
www.cybershaft.jp (use Chrome to get translation);
- an ULTIMATE version with frequency adjustment, high & low level output choice and THREE (3) outputs that via dip switches can
be set to output either 50 or 75 ohm impedance so I think this is the ultimate clock for your needs. It can be ordered in varying
OCXO levels from OP14 all the way up to OP20. For my money, I'd suggest OP17, 18, 19 or 20 but inventory on the 20 is noted
to be extremely low. It also uses several of the features in my OP21 custom build from a while back including the copper base
plate internally and other nifty features. This is a 3-output top of the line master clock that should meet the needs of many
people looking for 50-ohm or 75-ohm output in a reference class 10 Mhz device..
- a LIMITED2 version with frequency adjustment, high & low level output choice and ONE (1) output that via dip switch can
be set to output either 50 or 75 ohm impedance so I think this is the ultimate clock for your needs. It can be ordered in varying
OCXO levels from OP14 all the way up to OP20. For my money, I'd suggest OP17, 18, 19 or 20 but inventory on the 20 is noted
to be extremely low. It also uses several of the features in my OP21 custom build from a while back including the copper base
plate internally and other nifty features. This only has one output but has all the other new features...
I'm several years in with Cybershaft clocks in my system and have had my OP21 for some time now. I have owned and evaluated
several other top-end master clocks; not only for the money but also for the sound of the system, these are the best I have heard!
Another new product (signal distributor) introduced today;
CYBERSHAFT now has high-quality OCXO modules of different levels again AND 3 new products;
Newly announced Cybershaft Platimum (single output 50-ohn or 75-ohm);
http://www.cybershaft.jp/a-products/ultimate1.html
or Cybershaft Limited2 (3 output 50-ohm or 75-ohm, selectable for each!);
http://www.cybershaft.jp/a-products/limited2.html
Can be ordered in levels OP14 up to OP20 (the higher levels are likely to be rare so best order soon!).
Kenji's been VERY busy and the phase noise and jitter specs on the higher end units are off the charts!
Brand new today (19-November-2018)
New announced (today) audiophile-grade Clock Distributor (up to 3 outputs);
http://www.cybershaft.jp/a-products/clockdist01.html
*Note the addition of 50-ohm or 75-ohm as output on each individual BNC output on all of the above!
CYBERSHAFT now has high-quality OCXO modules of different levels again AND 3 new products;
Newly announced Cybershaft Platimum (single output 50-ohn or 75-ohm);
http://www.cybershaft.jp/a-products/ultimate1.html
or Cybershaft Limited2 (3 output 50-ohm or 75-ohm, selectable for each!);
http://www.cybershaft.jp/a-products/limited2.html
Can be ordered in levels OP14 up to OP20 (the higher levels are likely to be rare so best order soon!).
Kenji's been VERY busy and the phase noise and jitter specs on the higher end units are off the charts!
Brand new today (19-November-2018)
New announced (today) audiophile-grade Clock Distributor (up to 3 outputs);
http://www.cybershaft.jp/a-products/clockdist01.html
*Note the addition of 50-ohm or 75-ohm as output on each individual BNC output on all of the above!
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