Reviewing the Furutec Demag

[Bruce B]

Bruce,

What does the manual say for decriptions of rms level(db) and average value(db) that your charts show? Are they power as opposed to voltage?
Tom

I've been looking through the manual and I coudn't find anything. I would assume it meant amplitude power. I don't think voltage was measured.

In 24-bit audio, the measurements range from -8388608 to 8388607

 

[Lee]

Ethan,

I think we have proof in this thread that demag effect is a reduced average value output from the LP. I do not see that as an improvement, unless the resulting increase in noise adds to the stereo seperation effect as you have mentioned before.

I'm puzzled by this. A friend and I have created a demag device and we both hear more clarity. We find the noise level has decreased.

 

[Lee]

Hi Lee,

Noise level decreasing (ok, I can see it), and output level decreasing as well, that would I think agree with Bruce's tests results.


If you click on the takes before and after demag in #432 you can clearly see that we saw a huge drop in "average value" and hence I conclude output level. I only assumed that noise level would stay the same in the system, and hence, if average value dropped noise would therefore increase.

Lee, have you an spl meter or something to see if you actually get less output after demag? Less amplitude level could equate to less harmonic distortion from lows (like less than 200hz) and thus less percieved fullness (harmonics) in the early midrange ...thus more clarity...

who knows..

BTW, are you using MM or MC?


Tom

All good questions Tom. Using three different systems, all MC. Have not checked with SPL meter but I will do that soon. Does not appear to lose volume. Maybe I can capture some of this in SoundForge...

 

[DaveyF]

Well this thread had certainly been an interesting read..

One thing may be worth mentioning is that IF ( ok, a VERY big IF) the Demag works for a reviewer or end-user, and they believe that they hear an improvement in their system's sound wherein that same user can justify the price asked for this improvement, I for one, fail to see where the harm in that lies.
In the history of audio, as we all know, there have been numerous 'tweeks' that have purported to
increase the realism of reproduced sound. How many of these 'tweeks' have truly lived up to their 'hype' is unknown, but one thing is for certain...many of the a'phile community have bought into the 'hype' and more importantly been satisfied with it
IMHO, anything that states that it de-magnetizes vinyl is highly suspect..OTOH, as I personally have not listened to this piece of equipment, I would not venture an opinion as to its effectiveness. I would suggest that perhaps we should all give the DeMag the benefit of the doubt and only come to a conclusion upon experiencing the unit for ourselves.
I learnt many moons ago, that in this hobby, one should NEVER believe what a fellow a'phile hears or even more so- what a reviewer hears/ writes about, unless one has experienced the piece in question for oneself.

 

[Lee]

I should clarify what we have done. None of us wanted to spend $2K on the Furutech Demag so what a friend bought a large ring magnet off an ebay seller and we tested regular LPs that way. Then I received the Clarity vinyl from Classic Records. In both cases we found a nice improvement. We have had several folks over to the listening room and have A/Bed the Clarity Coltrane LPs in both Clarity and non-Clarity sides. People picked the Clarity vinyl without knowing which one was which.

That is why I believe there is something to the magnetic phenomena.

 

[amirm]

Lee, since you went the DIY route, you may be the best candidate for another test . Use a strong magnet and try to magnetize the LP and see what effect it does.

BTW, the only thing we have concluded is that in repeated plays, the performance of LP changes. And to my surprise, the difference is quite audible and can easily be thought to be an improvement. This was especially the case with Bruce's files. We need to rule out or rule in the effect of magnetism on this.

 

[Lee]

Amir, thanks and I will try an experiment or two this weekend.

 

[Ethan Winer]

a friend bought a large ring magnet off an ebay seller

Permanent magnet or electromagnet? A permanent magnet magnetizes, not demagnetizes!

--Ethan

 

[Lee]

Permanent magnet or electromagnet? A permanent magnet magnetizes, not demagnetizes!

--Ethan

It's an electromagnetic.

 

[garylkoh]

I know that this old horse has been beaten to death already.... but just for closure, this post completes what I promised that I would do.

Since the play-to-play variation can mask the effects of demagnetization, I made two recordings 24hrs apart. To be sure that there are no other variables, I tried to keep as close to the same process as possible over 2 days. All electronics have been warmed up for weeks already (I don't turn the system off except to bring to shows or change out gear) so they should all be warm and stable. When I get to work, I turn on the turntable. All morning I'm playing digital background music. After lunch, I play 3 LPs for background music. Then, I put on Jimmy Smith It's Necessary and record the first track on side 2.

The next day, I do exactly the same thing, except that I demagnetize the album first on the Acoustic Revive demagnetizer. The tracks are presented here in no particular order:

http://www.genesisloudspeakers.com/downloads/JimmySmithA.wav

http://www.genesisloudspeakers.com/downloads/JimmySmithB.wav

Thanks to gregadd for recommending the music, and for starting this thread. I, for one, learned a great deal.

 

[fas42]

I know that this old horse has been beaten to death already....

How dare you call Lee's avatar an old horse!

Frank

 

[Gregadd]

I know that this old horse has been beaten to death already.... but just for closure, this post completes what I promised that I would do.

Since the play-to-play variation can mask the effects of demagnetization, I made two recordings 24hrs apart. To be sure that there are no other variables, I tried to keep as close to the same process as possible over 2 days. All electronics have been warmed up for weeks already (I don't turn the system off except to bring to shows or change out gear) so they should all be warm and stable. When I get to work, I turn on the turntable. All morning I'm playing digital background music. After lunch, I play 3 LPs for background music. Then, I put on Jimmy Smith It's Necessary and record the first track on side 2.

The next day, I do exactly the same thing, except that I demagnetize the album first on the Acoustic Revive demagnetizer. The tracks are presented here in no particular order:

http://www.genesisloudspeakers.com/downloads/JimmySmithA.wav

http://www.genesisloudspeakers.com/downloads/JimmySmithB.wav

Thanks to gregadd for recommending the music, and for starting this thread. I, for one, learned a great deal.

Glad you enjoyed the music. Let's not forget Teddy Edwards on sax.

Even if the Furutech met its claims, vague as they are, it is still open to substantial criticism.

Mod: deleted personal remark. Please stay on topic.

 

[Gregadd]

Does that mean all the personal attacks on me will be deleted?

 

[booboobaer]

There is something I do to my Accustic Arts transport. It is a top loader for cds. I have a Shakti Stone and I place it directly above the spindle. The Shakti is a Electromagnetic stablizer and I believe it helps with the magnetic field generated by the spinning of the disc. Anyway I am not sure why it works but you should try it. It works wonders for my didgital playback.



Booboobaer

 

[mep]

I have some joo-joo beans and chicken bones I shake in front of my CD player and they do wonders too.

 

[garylkoh]

Now, now, Mark. Be nice.

There *may* be a good reason why the Shakti stone works on top of a top-loading CD player right on top of the spindle. The head of a CD player is very loosely coupled to the sled because it has electromagnetic servos to focus the laser on the rotating (vibrating and assymmetric) CD. Hence, electromagnetic stabilization may help keep the head focused.

 

[Ron Party]

Gary, if that were true, I would surmise the transport is, well, broken and in need of service.

 

[booboobaer]

Your comment is why I will no longer share my findings wlth people such as yourself. If you would try you might find you can learn something! Very rude, real class! Mep it says you are a founding member did you start WBF so you can feel better when you crack on others? Consider me gone.

 

[mep]

Booboo-Sorry if my attempt at humor upset you. I thought you were kidding when you wrote your post. I should have known better. Sorry bro.

 

[garylkoh]

Gary, if that were true, I would surmise the transport is, well, broken and in need of service.

I don't know about that..... I do know that Esoteric, for example, go to extraordinary lengths to reduce vibrations in their transports. Many have heard an improvement when reducing vibrations in CD transports with mass loading and vibration control. Before EAC and dBPowerAmp, I used to modify cheap top-loading CDROM drives to get more consistent and better rips, and yes, I did put a Shakti stone on top of the spindle. May be it was the placebo effect - but I don't want to revisit research I did 6 years ago. These days I'm happy with a music server that seem impervious to Shakti stones and chicken bones.