Why do you think so? Stereo reproduction anticipates point sources.
Bipolar or dipolar?
Robert Harleys 'listening room
- Thread starter Gregadd
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Why do you think so? Stereo reproduction anticipates point sources.
Bipolar or dipolar?
As far as I see this forum, if done in a civilized and fair way, everyone if free to criticize anything related to audio. It is great when they explain with detail their perspective.
I have not heard Bob 's room and never will. It is he that gets paid in one form or another to inform the public of how to get more from their system. The fact that you think it sounds good does not make his efforts beyond reproach. Like any effort it is grist for the mill.
Indeed you claim to"have heard his room." That implies it has a sonic signature, albeit a good one. For instance compromise for aesthetics.
IMO difference of opinion is warranted and to be expected.
I was in a room a couple months ago. Same wall system. Plywood backed studs, double layer on clips. A couple big windows. The back one with a huge scattering device that opens and closes. The other with the same fitted into it. Pretty rectangular with maybe a 9 foot ceiling.
Really bad slap echo . Sounds like its behind you on the rear wall in the corner between ceiling and wall. Metalic sound. It needs a couple treatments.
Juxtaposing my earlier comments, I was surprised he had no built in treatments like Bob. At the same time, I see rooms with wall hanging absorbers that look very nice. This guy need to try a couple. I like a "Live" room. But his is way to live.
I would personally rather start from to live than to dead. You can fix to live. You may need to tare out and rebuild too dead.
Really bad slap echo . Sounds like its behind you on the rear wall in the corner between ceiling and wall. Metalic sound. It needs a couple treatments.
Juxtaposing my earlier comments, I was surprised he had no built in treatments like Bob. At the same time, I see rooms with wall hanging absorbers that look very nice. This guy need to try a couple. I like a "Live" room. But his is way to live.
I would personally rather start from to live than to dead. You can fix to live. You may need to tare out and rebuild too dead.
Never said difference of opinion is not warranted, it most certainly is. What I say is just my opinion, nothing more than that.
I'm just not into discussing the sound of the music in Bob's room, not the room as you referred to, if someone has not heard it for themselves. I didn't mean I heard "the room", I meant I listened to music from three different speakers that I am intimately familiar with in Bob's room and each one sounded as good as I have heard them. Again, just my opinion of what I heard.
Nothing about "beyond reproach".
I'll say one thing, I wish I had Bob's room
Agreed, and I applaud all that want to do so. It's only me that is not interested in discussing the sound in a room unless myself and someone else has actually listened to music in a particular room. Even then there will surely be difference of opinions, but it a richer and more meaningful conversation for me.
I did not say for others not to discuss it without actually hearing something. It's just me that chooses not to do so.
I love how the thread is about Roberts room, but its really about Bobs room now. OR, whos room? Anyone want to post their room picture.
yes of course Francisco. Bob is simply saying he’s not interested in joining the discussion if that’s the case. He has the right to not participate if he is not interested in doing so and he has the right to discount opinions of those who have not actually been to the room and listened to the system.
Can a moderator correct the spelling of Robert Harley's name? Seems like the least we can do.
Two points…
1) My room remodel was done long before I became affiliated with Rhapsody. I don’t advocate wrt room treatments unless asked.
2) my initial post on this thread was simply that it was my opinion Harley could have created a much more aesthetically pleasing room given the typical gestalt of a desert SW adobe style residence. I made that comment without knowing what the rest of his home is like, and if it works for him that is all that matters.
Thanks to those who’ve made such kind remarks wrt my room aesthetics, and also to those who have come by for a listen. If anyone has come by and thought my room sucked — well, they’ve been kind to not say so.
Rex commented the fear of building too much into the walls as it may not have the result they hoped for — this is a real consideration that needs to be respected. Over damping a space happens a lot from what I’ve read over the years and few have resources for multiple attempts.
In my case it would only require removing the fabric and modifying the layer beneath — there are dozens of BAD panel designs these days many with the outer layer finished with designs that offer choices to match whatever look you’re going for. I could hide anything behind the fabric wall, even the ugliest of diffusers and man-oh-man there are some that would give me vertigo or nausea if I had to stare at them while listening.
Rex commented the fear of building too much into the walls as it may not have the result they hoped for — this is a real consideration that needs to be respected. Over damping a space happens a lot from what I’ve read over the years and few have resources for multiple attempts.
In my case it would only require removing the fabric and modifying the layer beneath — there are dozens of BAD panel designs these days many with the outer layer finished with designs that offer choices to match whatever look you’re going for. I could hide anything behind the fabric wall, even the ugliest of diffusers and man-oh-man there are some that would give me vertigo or nausea if I had to stare at them while listening.
Indeed. How anyone can comment on the sound of Mr. Harley's room or any other gear without hearing it is beyond my comprehension. Maybe someone can help me understand this hypothetical scenario.
If I were he, I might prefer the anonymity of Hartley. Not being negative. Just thinking that I might prefer Johnston.
But then he will not be able to find it when he googles his own name, like other celebrity reviewers do periodicallyIf I were he, I might prefer the anonymity of Hartley. Not being negative. Just thinking that I might prefer Johnston.
When the forerunner of google was first launched (Mosaic), it was exciting. We had access and were very proud.But then he will not be able to find it when he googles his own name, like other celebrity reviewers do periodically
In the early years, I did occasionally google my own name, and invariably my work would dominate the first page of returns.
Today, when traffic is directed by payments and commercial web sites, and when old work has been replaced by new, I doubt that I would be found in the first ten pages of returns. Commercial enterprises, doctors, dentists, lawyers, etc dominate. And perhaps rightly so. DotCom trumps DotEdu.
One day before my own retirement, I was talking with an honored colleague (President of two different Universities during his career) who had retired.
He told me “When you retire, you go from “Who’s Who” to “Who’s He?””
Just Googled my wife (MaryJo Camp) and she was the first 7 hits on the first page. Plus a few more scattered down the same page. She‘s not fully retired though.When the forerunner of google was first launched (Mosaic), it was exciting. We had access and were very proud.
In the early years, I did occasionally google my own name, and invariably my work would dominate the first page of returns.
Today, when traffic is directed by payments and commercial web sites, and when old work has been replaced by new, I doubt that I would be found in the first ten pages of returns. Commercial enterprises, doctors, dentists, lawyers, etc dominate. And perhaps rightly so. DotCom trumps DotEdu.
One day before my own retirement, I was talking with an honored colleague (President of two different Universities during his career) who had retired.
He told me “When you retire, you go from “Who’s Who” to “Who’s He?””
Probably aren’t a lot of MaryJos out there. That helps. Johnsons are quite common … maybe Navin R. Johnson is somewhat unique and not found in many phone books or web pages, but most Johnsons are duplicated.
...so this would be the opposite direction from the lovely @Bobvin space. And others.
It is subterranean and loaded with visible treatments. I have never measured it, but it sounds good to me. And local audio friends. Someday I'll measure it. Maybe.
The long-wall is at a 23 degree angle to the opposite wall, as structure is a semi-circular condo.
Audio in this structure is near-hopeless, and I long ago gave up on the open-floor plan audio option upstairs. However, below grade has options. And Sweetie refuses to move.
Walls are furred-out from studs with steel Z-clips...horizontal steel track, similar to the Noxon concepts previously posted. But old days, it was homosote, constrained layer, then drywall. Circa 1988.
Ceiling is "dropped" with a grid, but drywalled onto that structure. Some loose batting is stuffed in to help with HVAC/plumbing sounds. Not perfect. Not bad.
The visible treatments are mostly GIK, but I have built many DIY solutions from plans and experiments. Did I mention, Sweetie refuses to move?
And treatments are hidden too. The walls are also furred-out in places, and rigid fiberglass is hidden in sealed compartments, with finished treatments as a final layer.
Some corners have super-chunk traps. The DIY trap behind the chair is about 165 pounds, with multiple chambers and products inside. I built the quads behind the chair too; both from plans.
The drybar in back also has 8" of rigid fiberglass hidden away behind it. The circular traps I knocked off from Tube Trap pics and whitepapers.
I am posting, not just to give you guys a belly-laugh at my expense, but to show an odd alternative for folks that might have a less-than-optimum room. It is possible to be creative and develop alternative solutions that work. And most rooms would not need so much attention. This one does!
We could afford to build a gonzo room, but the structure here is not amenable to the project, so I gotta dance with the girl I brought. A solution with all this treatment upstairs, amid the art and furniture, would require a divorce attorney.
It is subterranean and loaded with visible treatments. I have never measured it, but it sounds good to me. And local audio friends. Someday I'll measure it. Maybe.
The long-wall is at a 23 degree angle to the opposite wall, as structure is a semi-circular condo.
Audio in this structure is near-hopeless, and I long ago gave up on the open-floor plan audio option upstairs. However, below grade has options. And Sweetie refuses to move.
Walls are furred-out from studs with steel Z-clips...horizontal steel track, similar to the Noxon concepts previously posted. But old days, it was homosote, constrained layer, then drywall. Circa 1988.
Ceiling is "dropped" with a grid, but drywalled onto that structure. Some loose batting is stuffed in to help with HVAC/plumbing sounds. Not perfect. Not bad.
The visible treatments are mostly GIK, but I have built many DIY solutions from plans and experiments. Did I mention, Sweetie refuses to move?
And treatments are hidden too. The walls are also furred-out in places, and rigid fiberglass is hidden in sealed compartments, with finished treatments as a final layer.
Some corners have super-chunk traps. The DIY trap behind the chair is about 165 pounds, with multiple chambers and products inside. I built the quads behind the chair too; both from plans.
The drybar in back also has 8" of rigid fiberglass hidden away behind it. The circular traps I knocked off from Tube Trap pics and whitepapers.
I am posting, not just to give you guys a belly-laugh at my expense, but to show an odd alternative for folks that might have a less-than-optimum room. It is possible to be creative and develop alternative solutions that work. And most rooms would not need so much attention. This one does!
We could afford to build a gonzo room, but the structure here is not amenable to the project, so I gotta dance with the girl I brought. A solution with all this treatment upstairs, amid the art and furniture, would require a divorce attorney.
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i watched the video, and much of it rings true with my room building experience, but there is more than one way to skin the cat. ultimately rooms and speakers have to match to a degree, speakers need appropriate room to breathe to allow the music to expand and scale. yet too much space has a negative effect. it's about balance.
i never started out with any uniform treatment on all the walls, but with some built in diffusion elements, which has all been retained, and hardwood surfaces on the walls and ceiling. this turned out to be a major asset as it retained all the energy, and once i fully (to my personal taste) figured the room out 10 years later, all that energy paid dividends. i agree with Harley that too much diffusion built in can be a problem, and, as Rex said, a room can be toned down reasonably, but adding energy is a challenge.
the only original part i've moved away from, is most of my considerable bass trapping, but it was logistically easy to close up or remove. part of the room learning curve and room tuning process.
my room being in a separate building and a room inside a room, i never had to worry about keeping noise out or in. only making sure the bass could 'hook up' inside the room, which it does in ways that please me.
my room won't win any beauty contests, as it's a hot rod with zero pretenses. if i were to remove the window inserts, then that would add a nice peek-a-boo view, but it's not my agenda. i prefer a completely unfettered soundstage and Warp 9 coherence. had a visitor yesterday, we played the 45rpm version of 'Whole Lotta Love' at full tilt boggie and it was awesome.
i never started out with any uniform treatment on all the walls, but with some built in diffusion elements, which has all been retained, and hardwood surfaces on the walls and ceiling. this turned out to be a major asset as it retained all the energy, and once i fully (to my personal taste) figured the room out 10 years later, all that energy paid dividends. i agree with Harley that too much diffusion built in can be a problem, and, as Rex said, a room can be toned down reasonably, but adding energy is a challenge.
the only original part i've moved away from, is most of my considerable bass trapping, but it was logistically easy to close up or remove. part of the room learning curve and room tuning process.
my room being in a separate building and a room inside a room, i never had to worry about keeping noise out or in. only making sure the bass could 'hook up' inside the room, which it does in ways that please me.
my room won't win any beauty contests, as it's a hot rod with zero pretenses. if i were to remove the window inserts, then that would add a nice peek-a-boo view, but it's not my agenda. i prefer a completely unfettered soundstage and Warp 9 coherence. had a visitor yesterday, we played the 45rpm version of 'Whole Lotta Love' at full tilt boggie and it was awesome.
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