Robert Koda K160 Amps are on their way finally!

[andromedaaudio]

But the Gryphon Apex is so nice because it completely grips the LS units , total control .
Like halcro but Halcro is a AB design , the gryphon is Class A .
There are 6 candidates for if i were to spend high Dollar on SS , in more or less this order

The Gryphon APEX
Robert Koda / CH precision / Halcro .
Pilium/ FM acoustics

 

[LL21]

I have never heard the colosseum or memphisto , but quit a few of the other SS amps

From that list you have id say only FM acoustics is high end .
The rest is medium end

Man...you have some pretty high standards!

But yes, I did like the FMA a lot...I was genuinely not sure what to expect (I was actually going in slightly skeptical), but I was genuinely impressed...the power was the area where the 111 Monos just did not have the level of drive I was hoping for, and the only way to get it (I surmised) was to go higher up the chain which is just a non-starter for me. Nevertheless, I really did like what I heard.

Music found a clarity of purpose through the FMA I found unique...sometimes amps play back very well with all manner of power or detail, but not every note or decay falls perfectly into place (and so it just becomes an artifact or an outlier sound which you get used to ignoring)...and then when it DOES fall into place, you realize 'ah-ha, THAT's why that note is there or how that vibrato is working within the music'. The FMA did that very well for me. More sounds, nuances, inflections, etc made more sense as part of the actual music making.

I cannot compare the Robert Koda directly to the FMA, but my experience has been that Robert has genuinely designed in his own words with 'dynamic simplicity' as his entire design ethos...and it shows. A lot of the artifact-stuff I refer to above has simply fallen away, and the music sense is very very clear and absolutely natural when you listen to music. Rare.

 

[LL21]

But the Gryphon Apex is so nice because it completely grips the LS units , total control .
Like halcro but Halcro is a AB design , the gryphon is Class A .
There are 6 candidates for if i were to spend high Dollar on SS , in more or less this order

The Gryphon APEX
Robert Koda / CH precision / Halcro .
Pilium/ FM acoustics

Wow...pretty good company there!

 

[Mike Lavigne]

But the Gryphon Apex is so nice because it completely grips the LS units , total control .
Like halcro but Halcro is a AB design , the gryphon is Class A .
There are 6 candidates for if i were to spend high Dollar on SS , in more or less this order

The Gryphon APEX
Robert Koda / CH precision / Halcro .
Pilium/ FM acoustics

i don't mean to butt into your super tube-like solid state party talk......but i think that darTZeel is certainly also in this tip top level. we can debate it's placement.

 

[andromedaaudio]

i don't mean to butt into your super tube-like solid state party talk......but i think that darTZeel is certainly also in this tip top level. we can debate it's placement.

You can argue off course that a lot of my experiences include dealer shows / regular shows .
May be a visit to your system would change all that , i dont know
But the DEMO in munich with the big Dartsystem / Stenheim was medium high end for sure to my ears , i actually think something was wrong with those speakers (tweeter break up issues )

 

[Mike Lavigne]

You can argue off course that a lot of my experiences include dealer shows / regular shows .
May be a visit to your system would change all that , i dont know
But the DEMO in munich with the big Dartsystem / Stenheim was medium high end for sure to my ears , i actually think something was wrong with those speakers (tweeter break up issues )

Mr. Fremer had the Gryphon Apex pre and amp in his room for months and really enjoyed it, but preferred his darts. on the Wilson XVX.

go figure. systems are systems. and living with something is vastly different than a show. and if you are claiming resemblance to tubes, it helps to have 'uber' tubes to directly compare that question.

 

[andromedaaudio]

So M fremer liked them thats fine for him .
I wouldnt call wilson audio SOTA either , the XVX i heard in munich was one of the worst sounding $ for music values i ve heard .
Some people think my speakers are not good sounding not a big deal to me .
My opinion is what counts , i can buy any SOTA amp and or speaker i want

 

[Mike Lavigne]

So M fremer liked them thats fine for him .
I wouldnt call wilson audio SOTA either , the XVX i heard in munich was one of the worst sounding $ for music values i ve heard .

the question is not dollar value, as a speaker builder your sensitivity on that issue is skewed, it's whether the speaker system can reveal attributes of the amplifiers. i'd respect that Mr. Fremer has sampled sufficient numbers of electronics to have a solid opinion about that. and the XVX was his choice for that reason, he liked them, and it represented a known quantity to his readers.

no one pushed Michael, or Jacob Heilbrunn either, to join darTZeel and big Wilson's, but they both chose it for themselves. over many other choices. both had CH and Ypsilon for example, in room. you never see (i've not heard of it) North American brick and mortar dealers with darTZeel and Wilson in their display room. darTZeel is against the grain of convention. it is never an accidental or commercial choice. which is why i've brought it up here.

Some people think my speakers are not good sounding not a big deal to me .
My opinion is what counts , i can buy any SOTA amp and or speaker i want

granted.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I see audio magazines just as anything in the business world .
First you gotta get some money in before you can get something out of it .
Thats just a business rule ,and you know it probably better then anyone else on this forum .
I take magazines opinions with a grain of salt and the more expensive the gear the larger the grain (often ) becomes.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I see audio magazines just as anything in the business world .
First you gotta get some money in before you can get something out of it .
Thats just a business rule ,and you know it probably better then anyone else on this forum .
I take magazines opinions with a grain of salt and the more expensive the gear the larger the grain (often ) becomes.

my viewpoint of Michael Fremer and Jacob Heilbrunn dart impressions are direct to me from them. which their writings are true to. of course, they are just 2 guys with opinions. like the rest of us have.

maybe in your experiences it's not always like that. which is fair.

 

[Elliot G.]

my viewpoint of Michael Fremer and Jacob Heilbrunn dart impressions are direct to me from them. which their writings are true to. of course, they are just 2 guys with opinions. like the rest of us have.

maybe in your experiences it's not always like that. which is fair.

IMHO the voices of reviewers are something to be heard however they are opinions based on their likes and experiences. Since only a few have had the opportunity to actually hear their systems in their rooms the rest is highly speculative. I take all shows with a grain of salt as NONE of them ever came close to what a proper set up in a mature purpose built room can accomplish. I can get a glimpse or an idea of something and perhaps that will make me look deeper but I have NEVER had my socks blown off at any show.
Systems are just that. Dependant of the room, the gear and the set up. No speaker is perfect for everyone not even my own ( Oliver I am kidding LOL) The interaction of electronics, speakers, cables, source and the room is what we hear.We all have to work with what we have chosen.
If you picked a room and a speakers then that is your anchor and you need to live and die with that unless you start over in a another space or with another speaker.
The brands mentioned here are all well respected. My choice for the one I own and have spent time with is the CH 10 series both amp and preamp. IMO its the most satisfying of what I have lived with, tried or owned.I have spoken with RK he seems to bne a very good guy but getting to hear his stuff in the US is just about impossible. DartZel is not easily findable either but a lot easier than RK. I have not had them in my system but have listened extensively to them and I think they are wonderful products cant tell you if I would prefer them to what I own and to be honest I am not looking. I have tried many others over the last period of time DAG, Soulution, Griffen not Apex, Spectral, ARC, CJ VAC and others. I picked got mine and stand by that decision. Argueing IMO in a vacuum is really not productive.
One last thing the reviewers dont all access to the same gear as well. RH, JH,JV all are from TAS yet they don't have the same gear and I doubt they even listen to each others or certanly not often.
Best advice pick the speaker you love and that can work in your space or make a space where it can work. The rest will follow suite and a survey really wont get you there only doing the work and learning will. I seriously doubt , actually know, there is no universal answer. No amplifier etc. that will work equally well on every speaker design and room. This I have learned over 50 years.

 

[LL21]

Thank you. Would love to hear the 468 monos, the CH10 monos and the Gryphon Apex. I have some sense of Gryphon having owned 3 of their amps for nearly 12 years consecutively culminating in the Mephisto Stereo. But no sense of the CH and basically none of the 468 other than some experience with the smaller 108 some time ago.

 

[Lagonda]

But the Gryphon Apex is so nice because it completely grips the LS units , total control .
Like halcro but Halcro is a AB design , the gryphon is Class A .
There are 6 candidates for if i were to spend high Dollar on SS , in more or less this order

The Gryphon APEX
Robert Koda / CH precision / Halcro .
Pilium/ FM acoustics

Good selection for a meat and potato box speaker guy like yourself !

 

[andromedaaudio]

Good selection for a meat and potato box speaker guy like yourself !

Haha you wish .
I m currently in Vietnam building a factory near Ho chi min city .
Mostly noodles here , yesterday we want to a goat restaurant .
Only goatmeat served there ( with noodles off course ).
By the way I ll take Heineken over Vietnamese beer anytime

 

[Gregadd]

my viewpoint of Michael Fremer and Jacob Heilbrunn dart impressions are direct to me from them. which their writings are true to. of course, they are just 2 guys with opinions. like the rest of us have.

maybe in your experiences it's not always like that. which is fair.

Can we add experience and vast exposure to equipment. I might also add if there is such a thing as "golden ears", Fremer has them. In ABX tests he is often referred to as a "lucky coin"

 

[andromedaaudio]

Good selection for a meat and potato box speaker guy like yourself !

Lunch

 

[andromedaaudio]

Can we add experience and vast exposure to equipment. I might also add if there is such a thing as "golden ears", Fremer has them. In ABX tests he is often referred to as a "lucky coin"

Are you in the industry , do you work for a mag , you re so protective all of a sudden ??
People should think / decide / buy for themselves .
Go to a show like the 2 in munchen and you ll find out there is a lot more on offer then what is spoonfed as being " best " by audiomagazines

 

[Gregadd]

Are you offering me a position? If I had a industry affiliation it would be in my sig line per TOS.

 

[andromedaaudio]

the question is not dollar value, as a speaker builder your sensitivity on that issue is skewed, it's whether the speaker system can reveal attributes of the amplifiers. i'd respect that Mr. Fremer has sampled sufficient numbers of electronics to have a solid opinion about that. and the XVX was his choice for that reason, he liked them, and it represented a known quantity to his readers.

As an exception these days , i have actually read the M fremer review of the GRYPHON APEX power amp
He did bring in the commander pre amp later .
A lot i agree with regarding the amps performance

 

[Gregadd]

Are you in the industry , do you work for a mag , you re so protective all of a sudden ??
People should think / decide / buy for themselves .
Go to a show like the 2 in munchen and you ll find out there is a lot more on offer then what is spoonfed as being " best " by audiomagazines

Not only have I ben to countless shows I used to hang out at hi-fi shops . The plain fact is there is no way I could have access to the equipment he does for the period of time he does.
I don't try to protect Fremer. IMO he has fended himself well against since pretty nasty heavyweights.
I do agree that some of the mags he has worked for pay homage to same manufacturers. Not all companies want to play the "review game." It is my belief that part of an awards purpose is to bring recognition to new designers and designs, I id not like it when ever year it was Magico or Wilson on the cover. OTOH if a product is the unequivocal best, so be it.