Rockport Technologies Introduces Orion Loudspeaker

[sbo6]

There is no contradiction. You are confusing your experiences with the science. We spend a fortune to get a perfect signal from your front end through your amplifier and to your speakers. Today most well made components accomplish this with very little error/ distortion. Now even the best speakers add relatively large distortion to the signal. Look at the curves of any good speaker. +\- 3dbs or more. Any amp or cd player doing that you’d throw out the window. You take the near perfect signal and split it into multiple part via (usually) passive parts put together by human hands and then ask multiple drivers to reconstruct perfectly. Some do better than others but there is no debate that this is not an issue no matter who you are. Stop and think about it.

We require multiple drivers not because that’s optimal but because we have no good alternative at this time. It’s not a good thing in and of itself. I raised the point as a thought experiment .

Josh and John may not have told me the truth about their driver specs but they do have and did measure all the usual suspects. I won’t name names for obvious reasons. I retract my assertion because I can not prove it.

I’m not really sure what you are missing. The question was why were they so expensive which I answered. The cabinet expense. The expense of how they create their drivers and the time expense of two key employees/owners overseeing each crossover. As for the rest you believe what you believe. I’ve done my best to give the the theoretical reasons behind a simpler approach. Of course right now large multi drivers have some very real advantages. I never said they do not. Buy them if you like them. There are some awesome examples I’d love to have. That does not mean there aren’t some real advantages to a simple 3 driver 3 way some of which I laid out for you. Remember Andy made the Arrakis and he will someday make another. Right now the smaller simpler Lyra is better in every way both measurable and subjectively. Does that make sense?

Let's just leave it since you can't see that you re-jig your answer to defend your previous posts' contradictions and that's fine. It is what it is, enjoy your Rockports, they are very good speakers.

 

[JiminGa]

Please explain the “rejiggering” you are referring to. I stand by every statement in my original post with the exception of the unprovable accuracy comment which I retracted. I restated the same reasons why a simple design has certain advantages which I stand by. I explained your Lyra question by explaining its superior cabinet construction while still stating I preferred Orion I went further to explain to you why crossovers are inherently challenging. I went further to admit that large multi driver speakers have their advantages as well and that I admire many of them. All I did was answer the question and give my reasoning for them. It’s fine to disagree with me but please don’t imply that I am rejiggering anything. I’m not some simple Rockport fan boy. There are plenty of other speakers I admire and would love to own. If you don’t t want your question/implication answered don’t ask/ imply them. Whether it’s me or anyone else try and disagree in a way that might lead to some deeper understanding on both our parts. I am now out as well. I really did not mean to offend your sensibilities here. I thought you really wanted a discussion about design choices and their inherent compromises. - Jim

 

[andromedaaudio]

JiminGA you re just speculating .
You dont know how the Orion / Lyra are internally wired .
They could have equal X over parts despite the Lyra having an extra mid range / woofer

 

[JiminGa]

I never mentioned the crossovers of either. I stated that the Lyra has a superior cabinet.

 

[JiminGa]

JiminGA you re just speculating .
You dont know how the Orion / Lyra are internally wired .
They could have equal X over parts despite the Lyra having an extra mid range / woofer

Oh, maybe I understand what you are saying. I don’t think the Lyra suffers from its crossover topology. It’s technically a 3 1/2 way where both mids receive the same exact signal but one of the is rolled off earlier around 500hz. The intent was to have more lower midrange presence. I’m not speculating. I’ve spent hours and hours over the years talking to them about their designs and philosophy and I’ve seen the Lyra crossover on the floor being tweeked by them.
I can tell you that they want to recreate something big like the Arrakis but really don’t want a 4 way for the reasons I mentioned though they may do it if they can really do it right, Right now they can’t top the Lyra though they have tried. They spent a ton of money on an Arrakis 2 but couldn’t justify the cost given that they still preferred Lyra. They will do it someday.
They are a small business and going downstream with Lynx will give them the ability to go upstream later.
The parts quality and the wiring is always the same.

 

[LL21]

Oh, maybe I understand what you are saying. I don’t think the Lyra suffers from its crossover topology. It’s technically a 3 1/2 way where both mids receive the same exact signal but one of the is rolled off earlier around 500hz. The intent was to have more lower midrange presence. I’m not speculating. I’ve spent hours and hours over the years talking to them about their designs and philosophy and I’ve seen the Lyra crossover on the floor being tweeked by them.
I can tell you that they want to recreate something big like the Arrakis but really don’t want a 4 way for the reasons I mentioned though they may do it if they can really do it right, Right now they can’t top the Lyra though they have tried. They spent a ton of money on an Arrakis 2 but couldn’t justify the cost given that they still preferred Lyra. They will do it someday.
They are a small business and going downstream with Lynx will give them the ability to go upstream later.
The parts quality and the wiring is always the same.

Look forward to seeing them go for new Arrakis someday based on Lyra in the way the original Arrakis was based on effectively stacking the Altair.

 

[sbo6]

Please explain the “rejiggering” you are referring to. I stand by every statement in my original post with the exception of the unprovable accuracy comment which I retracted. I restated the same reasons why a simple design has certain advantages which I stand by. I explained your Lyra question by explaining its superior cabinet construction while still stating I preferred Orion I went further to explain to you why crossovers are inherently challenging. I went further to admit that large multi driver speakers have their advantages as well and that I admire many of them. All I did was answer the question and give my reasoning for them. It’s fine to disagree with me but please don’t imply that I am rejiggering anything. I’m not some simple Rockport fan boy. There are plenty of other speakers I admire and would love to own. If you don’t t want your question/implication answered don’t ask/ imply them. Whether it’s me or anyone else try and disagree in a way that might lead to some deeper understanding on both our parts. I am now out as well. I really did not mean to offend your sensibilities here. I thought you really wanted a discussion about design choices and their inherent compromises. - Jim

Jim, let me break down a few examples -

- You stated that Rockport uses, "Only the lowest distortion drivers currently possible. " When I asked you for proof you answered, "They have told me personally that their drivers have lower distortion than any of their competitors. I can’t prove it but when I listen I believe it." and a third post later you state, "I retract my assertion because I can not prove it." - 1 assertion debunked

- Comparing the Orion to the Lyra (Rockport's top model with more drivers), you stated, "I personally prefer Orion but the Lyra has the advantage of its even better/quieter cabinet construction". I'm pretty sure Rockport would say the Lyra is hands - down better. Instead of admitting that extra drivers and XO points does not necessarily = lesser sound you deflect and double down with, "Extra crossovers cause some real problems." and say how superior Rockport drivers are to competitors. - Deflecting on reality evident in Rockport's own models.

There are many amazing 4-way and even 5-way designs, see Magico and Vivid Audio for examples. Less drivers = significantly more work / larger frequency band per driver which = more distortion and lesser quality sonics. Ceteris paribus of course.

I understand your fondness and intimate relationship with Rockport, they make some of the finest speakers in the industry, no doubt, but in the future you may want to separate yourself from your overly abundant RP admiration and think a bit more critically and scientifically. In my many years as an audiophile, this advice applies to many. Enjoy your Rockports and have a good one!

 

[Philb7777]

Would any of the Alex V or the Orion be suitable for a room whose size is 4x5meters? Or would they be too much? Thanks.

I have the Orion in a 15.5W ft x 21.5L ft x 9 ftH room. 4x5 meters would be a bit smaller than my room. I would think both Orion and Alexx V might be a bit big for the room. A Rockport Lynx would fit perfectly.

 

[JiminGa]

Wow I have never followed RP or anyone else. How did he get into this? I don’t read the magazines. I started this in 1976. I am a critical thinker by nature and live in the scientific realm. I have never ever considered anyone’s review. That was just a childish throw away comment by you. You don’t even know me well enough to know that.
To point out your ignorance a bit further No one at Rockport thinks the Lyra is hands down better. I know this for a fact. Where did you come up with this ? Critical thinking requires facts.
Over the years/decades I have had close relationships with lots of high end manufacturers. I’m not wedded to Rockport or anyone else. I admire and I understand the design philosophies of both Magico and Vivid. I’d be happy with either. It’s amazing what Laurence does.
I’m not like anyone else here. I am my own person. I’m not in anyone’s camp.
Everything you say is pure sophestry. No thoughts of your own on the subject of whether simpler could be better in some ways just snarky baseless insults.
Examining philosophical beliefs behind widely held opinions is the definition of critical thinking. Perhaps you should give it a try.
Nothing is “debunked”. That’s just dumb. I can’t produce distortion measurements here so I humbly withdrew my assertion out of fairness to Everyone.
I will not “enjoy my Rockports” I will enjoy my music that has sustained me for 65 years.

 

[sbo6]

Wow I have never followed RP or anyone else. How did he get into this? I don’t read the magazines. I started this in 1976. I am a critical thinker by nature and live in the scientific realm. I have never ever considered anyone’s review. That was just a childish throw away comment by you. You don’t even know me well enough to know that.
To point out your ignorance a bit further No one at Rockport thinks the Lyra is hands down better. I know this for a fact. Where did you come up with this ? Critical thinking requires facts.
Over the years/decades I have had close relationships with lots of high end manufacturers. I’m not wedded to Rockport or anyone else. I admire and I understand the design philosophies of both Magico and Vivid. I’d be happy with either. It’s amazing what Laurence does.
I’m not like anyone else here. I am my own person. I’m not in anyone’s camp.
Everything you say is pure sophestry. No thoughts of your own on the subject of whether simpler could be better in some ways just snarky baseless insults.
Examining philosophical beliefs behind widely held opinions is the definition of critical thinking. Perhaps you should give it a try.
Nothing is “debunked”. That’s just dumb. I can’t produce distortion measurements here so I humbly withdrew my assertion out of fairness to Everyone.
I will not “enjoy my Rockports” I will enjoy my music that has sustained me for 65 years.

You asked me to explain and so I did. I'm sorry you're defensive and feel the way you do.

Also, nothing I said was sophistry, it's based on my many years of education, musicianship and audio experience. Enjoy your music.