Let's just leave it since you can't see that you re-jig your answer to defend your previous posts' contradictions and that's fine. It is what it is, enjoy your Rockports, they are very good speakers.
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Rockport Technologies Introduces Orion Loudspeaker
- Thread starter MAXPWR
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Please explain the “rejiggering” you are referring to. I stand by every statement in my original post with the exception of the unprovable accuracy comment which I retracted. I restated the same reasons why a simple design has certain advantages which I stand by. I explained your Lyra question by explaining its superior cabinet construction while still stating I preferred Orion I went further to explain to you why crossovers are inherently challenging. I went further to admit that large multi driver speakers have their advantages as well and that I admire many of them. All I did was answer the question and give my reasoning for them. It’s fine to disagree with me but please don’t imply that I am rejiggering anything. I’m not some simple Rockport fan boy. There are plenty of other speakers I admire and would love to own. If you don’t t want your question/implication answered don’t ask/ imply them. Whether it’s me or anyone else try and disagree in a way that might lead to some deeper understanding on both our parts. I am now out as well. I really did not mean to offend your sensibilities here. I thought you really wanted a discussion about design choices and their inherent compromises. - Jim
JiminGA you re just speculating .
You dont know how the Orion / Lyra are internally wired .
They could have equal X over parts despite the Lyra having an extra mid range / woofer
You dont know how the Orion / Lyra are internally wired .
They could have equal X over parts despite the Lyra having an extra mid range / woofer
Oh, maybe I understand what you are saying. I don’t think the Lyra suffers from its crossover topology. It’s technically a 3 1/2 way where both mids receive the same exact signal but one of the is rolled off earlier around 500hz. The intent was to have more lower midrange presence. I’m not speculating. I’ve spent hours and hours over the years talking to them about their designs and philosophy and I’ve seen the Lyra crossover on the floor being tweeked by them.
I can tell you that they want to recreate something big like the Arrakis but really don’t want a 4 way for the reasons I mentioned though they may do it if they can really do it right, Right now they can’t top the Lyra though they have tried. They spent a ton of money on an Arrakis 2 but couldn’t justify the cost given that they still preferred Lyra. They will do it someday.
They are a small business and going downstream with Lynx will give them the ability to go upstream later.
The parts quality and the wiring is always the same.
Look forward to seeing them go for new Arrakis someday based on Lyra in the way the original Arrakis was based on effectively stacking the Altair.
Jim, let me break down a few examples -
- You stated that Rockport uses, "Only the lowest distortion drivers currently possible. " When I asked you for proof you answered, "They have told me personally that their drivers have lower distortion than any of their competitors. I can’t prove it but when I listen I believe it." and a third post later you state, "I retract my assertion because I can not prove it." - 1 assertion debunked
- Comparing the Orion to the Lyra (Rockport's top model with more drivers), you stated, "I personally prefer Orion but the Lyra has the advantage of its even better/quieter cabinet construction". I'm pretty sure Rockport would say the Lyra is hands - down better. Instead of admitting that extra drivers and XO points does not necessarily = lesser sound you deflect and double down with, "Extra crossovers cause some real problems." and say how superior Rockport drivers are to competitors. - Deflecting on reality evident in Rockport's own models.
There are many amazing 4-way and even 5-way designs, see Magico and Vivid Audio for examples. Less drivers = significantly more work / larger frequency band per driver which = more distortion and lesser quality sonics. Ceteris paribus of course.
I understand your fondness and intimate relationship with Rockport, they make some of the finest speakers in the industry, no doubt, but in the future you may want to separate yourself from your overly abundant RP admiration and think a bit more critically and scientifically. In my many years as an audiophile, this advice applies to many. Enjoy your Rockports and have a good one!
I have the Orion in a 15.5W ft x 21.5L ft x 9 ftH room. 4x5 meters would be a bit smaller than my room. I would think both Orion and Alexx V might be a bit big for the room. A Rockport Lynx would fit perfectly.
Wow I have never followed RP or anyone else. How did he get into this? I don’t read the magazines. I started this in 1976. I am a critical thinker by nature and live in the scientific realm. I have never ever considered anyone’s review. That was just a childish throw away comment by you. You don’t even know me well enough to know that.
To point it out a bit further No one at Rockport thinks the Lyra is hands down better. I know this for a fact. Where did you come up with this ? Critical thinking requires facts.
Over the years/decades I have had close relationships with lots of high end manufacturers. I’m not wedded to Rockport or anyone else. I admire and I understand the design philosophies of both Magico and Vivid. I’d be happy with either. It’s amazing what Laurence does.
I’m not like anyone else here. I am my own person. I’m not in anyone’s camp.
Everything you say is pure sophestry. No thoughts of your own on the subject of whether simpler could be better in some ways just snarky baseless insults.
Examining philosophical beliefs behind widely held opinions is the definition of critical thinking. Perhaps you should give it a try.
Nothing is “debunked”. That’s just dumb. I can’t produce distortion measurements here so I humbly withdrew my assertion out of fairness to Everyone.
I will not “enjoy my Rockports” I will enjoy my music that has sustained me for 65 years.⁷
To point it out a bit further No one at Rockport thinks the Lyra is hands down better. I know this for a fact. Where did you come up with this ? Critical thinking requires facts.
Over the years/decades I have had close relationships with lots of high end manufacturers. I’m not wedded to Rockport or anyone else. I admire and I understand the design philosophies of both Magico and Vivid. I’d be happy with either. It’s amazing what Laurence does.
I’m not like anyone else here. I am my own person. I’m not in anyone’s camp.
Everything you say is pure sophestry. No thoughts of your own on the subject of whether simpler could be better in some ways just snarky baseless insults.
Examining philosophical beliefs behind widely held opinions is the definition of critical thinking. Perhaps you should give it a try.
Nothing is “debunked”. That’s just dumb. I can’t produce distortion measurements here so I humbly withdrew my assertion out of fairness to Everyone.
I will not “enjoy my Rockports” I will enjoy my music that has sustained me for 65 years.⁷
You asked me to explain and so I did. I'm sorry you're defensive and feel the way you do.
Also, nothing I said was sophistry, it's based on my many years of education, musicianship and audio experience. Enjoy your music.
It has been just over a month since the Orion's arrived and they continue to amaze me. First of all, the transparency and timbral accuracy is truly the best I've ever heard in my room (or anywhere else) in my 30 years in the hobby. This has to be due to exceedingly low distortion and lack of cabinet internal vibrations that would smear the images and detail. The macro and micro dynamics continue to impress me. Decay, especially on acoustic instruments and cymbals are incredibly life-like. The bass is so smooth, textured, and yet impactful and seems very stable at low or higher volumes. Soundstage depth is fantastic, but soundstage width is phenomenal. Solid images are thrown well beyond the sidewalls in my room and sound as dense as the images between the speakers. Off-axis imaging is fantastic - had several people over in my room a week ago and guys sitting literally on the side of one of the Orion's heard staging and imaging 180 degrees across the room. The Orion's also play much larger than their cabinet size - this is a very good thing. I don't have one single reservation about the Orion's.
Congrats, I'm glad you're happy. Rockports are excellent speakers. Also, I'd wager the transparency and timbral accuracy has as much (probably more) to do with the drivers and crossover than the cabinet material. Either way, enjoy!
Yep, agreed, cabinets, drivers and XO all matter.
Looks like the Lyra/Orion have completely different drivers versus the Cygnus, so again, my $ is on the drivers and XO making the most difference and the cabinet improvements being an ancillary adder. We'll never know as there's no MDF/alum vs DAMTSIFF audible compare that I know of.
Also, I heard the Lyra, a very transparent and very good sounding speaker. Its bottleneck was that it can't play at ultimate high - level SPLs. I'm sure the Orion has even more of a limitation with just 3 drivers for about 10 octaves. but still great sounding speakers unless you want to play at ultimately loud SPLs.
Looks like the Lyra/Orion have completely different drivers versus the Cygnus, so again, my $ is on the drivers and XO making the most difference and the cabinet improvements being an ancillary adder. We'll never know as there's no MDF/alum vs DAMTSIFF audible compare that I know of.
Also, I heard the Lyra, a very transparent and very good sounding speaker. Its bottleneck was that it can't play at ultimate high - level SPLs. I'm sure the Orion has even more of a limitation with just 3 drivers for about 10 octaves. but still great sounding speakers unless you want to play at ultimately loud SPLs.
Exactly what I have experienced being a past Cygnus owner. Cygnus is an outstanding loudspeaker, but the Orion's do things the Cygnus just cannot.
I agree - I think the driver's make a difference too. With the Orion's having larger -sized tweeter and midrange than Cygnus and Lyra and albeit one bass driver, it also is larger. Compared to the Cygnus, the Orion is much more dynamic and plays very loud (at least for me) if needed without any breakup sonically at all. This was something I noticed quickly on day 1. From what I remember, most reviewers have stated the Lyra is more delicate, and perhaps has more detail, but Orion is more 'fun' and dynamic and plays loud without soundstage congestion and stays 'open'. I certainly agree with the Orion descriptions I have read, but I personally have never heard the Lyra's.
Ok hold on. The Lyra and the Cygnus have exactly the same drivers. The Lyra has one extra 6 inch midrange. ALL of its extra resolution is due to the cabinet! This is not some secret. Andy, Josh and Jon will all tell you the same thing. They should know. The designed and built them. Also, as an aside, the Orions 3 new drivers were designed to to create a full range speaker using only 3 drivers. To do so required the 13 inch woofer. This required a 7 inch midrange and this required a 1.25 inch tweeter. While they are newer the mid and tweeter are not lower in distortion than the older 6 inch and 1 inch versions. The crossovers are of exactly the same quality. Almost everything that is better about Lyra and Orion is the cabinets. That is Rockports philosophy. Every one of their speakers has the same quality drivers and crossovers. Hope this settles it. If not call Rockport on Monday and let them tell you themselves
I agree - that has been my understanding as well from both my audio dealer and Rockport -the cabinet is the main difference between the Orion and Lyra and the remainder of the Rockport lineup. That said, there are reportedly sonic differences between Orion and Lyra with Orion being the more overall dynamic of the two and the Lyra being slightly more refined. Perhaps this difference is due to both the new driver configuration in Orion's along with the larger drivers and the tweeter and midrange being crossed over at slightly lower frequency points? Again, I've never heard Lyra's so my comments are only based on discussions and what I've read.
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