Ron’s New System

[PeterA]

Size of the carpet, thickness, location of the carpet, ratio of size to room, and what is happening in the rest of the room all affect the end result.

I suppose people can follow advice and “best practices”, but I have found that listening followed by experimentation, followed by more listening, followed by changes and more listening, is the approach that worked for me.

It also depends on how flexible one is with integrating a multi use room or having a dedicated room.

The question I have for Ron is this: how did he decide the best way to proceed after gathering the advice of his acoustician Bonnie, David’s various recommendations, and perhaps those of others, all during the planning stages before he had a system to listen to the effect? And at this point, on what is he basing his decisions, now that the room is complete and he is getting his last components in?

The room seems more or less complete. Ron is his friends are listening and discussing the results and adding panels. Ron is also taking measurements. What are the guiding principles on which his decisions are based?

Perhaps my questions are more or less rhetorical. Ron has what he has and is making adjustments to achieve his stated goal which is making voices in particular and girl with guitar in general sound most pleasing to him. And he is following the comments of his local listening panel.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Simple. The more capacitance you add the less forward a stereo sounds. I don't mean in the forward to back spatial sense. Capacitance relaxes the sound, which can be dynamic loss to some or careful tuning to others. The amount per foot may mean more than total.

There is a high capacitive load for the output stage. If you love a warmer, dull sound, this is just right. not my cup of tea

 

[Argonaut]

This is correct. Nonetheless I think David is the world's leading expert on the SME 3012R tonearm. I think David is one of the world's leading experts on turntables.

Based on what frame of reference Ron ?

 

[microstrip]

(...) I answered your original question honestly and in good faith. I'm not going to waste my Sunday fencing with you.

Probably. But sorry, I am not going to waste my Sunday explaining to you what is a meaningful stereo preference.

 

[Ron Resnick]

The question I have for Ron is this: how did he decide the best way to proceed after gathering the advice of his acoustician Bonnie, David’s various recommendations, and perhaps those of others, all during the planning stages before he had a system to listen to the effect?

Soliciting expert advice; performing independent information-gathering and research; evaluating and weighing the opinions of experts who disagree; making decisions in the absence of perfect information; assigning confidence levels and probabilities of success -- all part of a very normal executive-style decision-making process. Basically, doing what seemed logical but making sure I did not bake too much absorption into the cake.

And at this point, on what is he basing his decisions, now that the room is complete and he is getting his last components in?

Objective frequency response measurements and subjective listening by myself and by visitors.

 

[microstrip]

Soliciting expert advice; performing independent information-gathering and research; evaluating and weighing the opinions of experts who disagree; making decisions in the absence of perfect information; assigning confidence levels and probabilities of success -- all part of a very normal executive-style decision-making process. Basically, doing what seemed logical but making sure I did not bake too much absorption into the cake.

As always we have different ways of living this hobby.

It is curious that you do not refer what I would consider mandatory in this subject - listening to creations of the different audio experts and then choosing one to follow. I listened to several treated rooms and disliked them - so I decided to go by myself with minimal treatments, just those needed to treat some specific interactions of my particular room with my speakers.

IMO understanding the experts objective is one key point of this subject. I can't see it as a normal executive-style decision-making process. For me it is also a process of faith and believe. If I had to build a treated large stereo room for myself I would hire SMT Acoustics to carry it and would put white acoustic cloth over it to make the room look like a common room. Audiophile friends I respect and have similar preferences told me good things about their treated rooms and I liked what I could read from and about them. But surely I would visit one of such rooms existing in my neighborhood before fully committing.

Objective frequency response measurements and subjective listening by myself and by visitors.

Sorry, what you have shown us are extremely limited measurements. Better to stick with the subjective listening - the interpretation of these minimalist measurements will only bias you.

 

[cjfrbw]

All tube: Sigfrieds on the bass towers and Jadis or SET on the ribbon. That would sound pretty nice, I would presume.

The bloggers will talk you into a true Frankenstein system yet. You'll wind up with bandages on your ears.

 

[Lagonda]

All tube: Sigfrieds on the bass towers and Jadis or SET on the ribbon. That would sound pretty nice, I would presume.

The bloggers will talk you into a true Frankenstein system yet. You'll wind up with bandages on your ears.

Bass towers have built in SS amps, thank god, can't be messed up by tubes !

 

[Al M.]

Bass towers have built in SS amps, thank god, can't be messed up by tubes !

And they are fantastic. Most tonally correct and most resolved bass I have heard. I was perhaps most impressed by low orchestral strings, those are sooo hard to get right in home reproduction.

One of the clear strengths of the system.

 

[cjfrbw]

AW, c'mon guys, a little Sigfried bass never hurt anybody.

 

[Lagonda]

Ron you should try adjusting the Q of the bass tower for best integration with the new amplifiers.

 

[tima]

Very impressive and admirable that you had the patience to make these comparisons! Do you remember anything about the sound of the Mogami (2549, perhaps?) versus the sound of the Belden?

It was Mogami 2534. I found it competent, maybe a wee bit closed in and slightly less extended on top. The Belden is more open and reveals a bit more information. It took a few days of run-in to take the edge off the Belden

 

[Folsom]

There is a high capacitive load for the output stage. If you love a warmer, dull sound, this is just right. not my cup of tea

Even though I don't use high capacitance anything, I still wouldn't distinctly say it's dull or warm.

 

[Folsom]

Ron you should try adjusting the Q of the bass tower for best integration with the new amplifiers.

They're already pegged at the lowest damping I think.

 

[tima]

Tim, are you using the Belden 1192a balanced or single-ended? What type of connectors do you have?

Single-ended. Lamm gear has XLR output and inputs but it does not have balanced circuits. The connector with its strain relief has no branding on it. I used to know who made it but forgot. It is similar to a Canare F-10.



I ordered the cable from Markertek as I have done with several other brands. A 24ft pair with connectors were something like $70.

Several times over the past year I went back and forth between the Belden 1192A and the Gotham GAC4/1 with Amphenol connectors at ~$70 for a 25-foot pair. Both are fine for my gear, the Gotham being a teeny bit better tonality and the Belden a bit more open, clear and articulated. I settled on the Belden.

 

[morricab]

Bass towers have built in SS amps, thank god, can't be messed up by tubes !

No wonder this system will never reach its full potential!!

 

[PeterA]

No wonder this system will never reach its full potential!!

Is this because you are mixing amplifiers and the speakers will never sound coherent?

 

[morricab]

Is this because you are mixing amplifiers and the speakers will never sound coherent?

It was a joke about using SS amps…

 

[PeterA]

It was a joke about using SS amps…

Some people think that if you change amplifier types for different parts of the speaker, it causes problems so I didn’t know you were joking

 

[Lagonda]

It was a joke about using SS amps…

Responding to a joke about tube amps ! Brad and i are the old muppets on the balcony !