Ron’s New System

[Audiohertz2]

Well, to beat a dead horse again, I run my 75 inchers (albeit direct drive/ no passive crossover) quite well (albeit smaller room 9’by 9’ by 9’ equilateral triangle setup) with 2 watts doing OK, 3.5 watts very good, 5 watts more than enough, routinely single ended Sony VFET 2SK60 (Pass DIY design)@ about 8 watts into 6 ohms. 15 watt Wavac is a monster amp. 50 watt Wavac is actually more than I care to test it with.

Even if you could actually hear amplifier compression in situ isolation from other components (which I would imagine is debatable in and of itself) how do you know it is the amplifier, or are you hearing some other source of compression, or are you just hearing signal compression louder so you hear it better? What bands exactly would these heard compression be in?

Just as a thought experiment, you would have to have a totally uncompressed source signal (0 to 120 db), it would have to be going through a provably uncompressed preamplifier, with a provably uncompressing speaker (yes, they can compress, too). Then, you might start arguing about whether you are hearing amplifier compression or not and whether it is distinctly audible and in which audio segments.

Since the vast majority of signals from mastering studios have all kinds of compressions already in their signals, how do you go about isolating one from the other when you are playing very loud?

Obviously, I am from the first couple of watts school rather than obsessing over the 500th watt completing a hypothetical transient school, so there is my bent.

Amplifier compression is the easiest to detect, as to compression on recordings some is a necessity or no way for the typical hifi system to playback ...!


Regards

 

[Audiohertz2]

Maybe, I don't know Vitus. I only recommend things that I have heard or tried myself. I don't believe in test winners. Of course, anyone can look for a tube amplifier, but then you also have to get the right speaker for that.

You also have to or should match speakers to your SS amp ...

 

[morricab]

just buy dart 468 mono blocks and move on to some other issue. likely the dart 108 Mk2 Stereo would also do it. stop listening to gear character and just listen to music. the darts get out of the way.

Except that is not true and they definitely have a character...even MF admits this in contrast to the ML3 (it was 458 at that time I think). I have heard the smaller dart many times and it has a signature...just like all other amps.

 

[DasguteOhr]

You also have to or should match speakers to your SS amp ...

I wrote somewhere that this is not the case.? Good tube amplifiers with low power limit the choice of speakers more.

 

[morricab]

you tried it on the drivers, not on the speakers.

as a reader either you are wrong or Don and Phil are, and the two other owners of the speakers

No, I tried it on Speakers I designed. As you have no idea what Don or Phil heard, nor the cause for it, your either/or is a false choice and you are flying off the handle making wild ass guesses (WAGs). You often try to box people into either/or choices based on faulty premises. It seems to be a tactic of debate of yours rather than acknowledging there could be lots of reasons for what is being heard and unless systematic elimination is performed no such either/or can be concluded.

 

[morricab]

The problem with this kind of merely mathematical analysis is that it does not contemplate the subjective concept of compression or the philosophy of headroom.

If the amp is still linear at 35 watts (admittedly a possible 'IF') and for sure the speaker is not compressing at 100dB as these big ribbons do not heat up the same way a voicecoil heats up...there is far better thermal dissipation, then it is unlikely there should be subjective compression, UNLESS the actual peak levels are well above what is claimed...also possible.

 

[bonzo75]

No, I tried it on Speakers I designed. As you have no idea what Don or Phil heard, nor the cause for it, your either/or is a false choice and you are flying off the handle making wild ass guesses (WAGs). You often try to box people into either/or choices based on faulty premises. It seems to be a tactic of debate of yours rather than acknowledging there could be lots of reasons for what is being heard and unless systematic elimination is performed no such either/or can be concluded.

actually, Ron confirmed a couple of times confirmed on what I said about Don and Phil so that makes you a liar consciously misleading.

And the fact that they were you designed speakers makes it worse. It must be one if the most incorrect experiments one can think off, from a guy who thinks AS 2000 and Horning TT are similar in design and SETs can me used to drive planars in small rooms

 

[morricab]

So if a tube amplifier comes to his limit , the stage image will initially be smaller and the bass will be slimmer. Ok, in your case, no bass signal is transmitted, so its limit will only be reached much later, my guess. But it's speculation because I didn't hear it locally.
If you need that much power, I would look for transistor amplifiers that have a similar sound to a tube. e.g. plinius,audia flight,valvet.View attachment 118777View attachment 118778

A good friend of mine has the Pinius SA-103, which is 100 watts Class A. While it sounds pretty good, a switch to a good tube amp tells you immediately that it sounds nothing like a tube amp and that the tube amp has the more desirable sound. The Pinius is a bit too dry and a bit too flat in it's imaging and soundstage. If one HAD to go with a transistor output, then I would get the Ypsilon Phaeton.

 

[morricab]

actually, Ron confirmed a couple of times confirmed on what I said about Don and Phil so that makes you a liar consciously misleading.

And the fact that they were you designed speakers makes it worse. It must be one if the most incorrect experiments one can think off, from a guy who thinks AS 2000 and Horning TT are similar in design and SETs can me used to drive planars in small rooms

He corrected you to the degree of their comments and besides that, Ron's confirmation of what others have said is proof of nothing...good thing you are not an attorney.

You never heard my design and I have at least one member here who did and liked the sound very much. I have had girlfriends of audiophile friends comment to my audiophile friend that why can't his system sound as realistic as mine...that with SET amps. You have no knowledge of what you speak only speculation and WAGs.

 

[DasguteOhr]

A good friend of mine has the Pinius SA-103, which is 100 watts Class A. While it sounds pretty good, a switch to a good tube amp tells you immediately that it sounds nothing like a tube amp and that the tube amp has the more desirable sound. The Pinius is a bit too dry and a bit too flat in it's imaging and soundstage. If one HAD to go with a transistor output, then I would get the Ypsilon Phaeton.

What preamp he used,that is crucial factor how Plinius sounds.like with every power amplifier the sound is adjusted beforehand, the power amplifier should only amplify properly, in my opinion.ypsilon thumbs up

 

[PeterA]

I think we have at least one more datapoint to add to the list:

"Ron has never heard a solid-state amplifier on an electrostatic, planar-magnetic or ribbon loudspeaker and liked the sound."

Ron, when you first auditioned your speakers in Denmark, were those Gryphon amps not SS? Did you not like the sound but chose to buy them anyway? If you must have tubes, what tubes does Fleming recommend?

 

[PeterA]

With the appropriate speaker.

One cannot buy their dream speaker design, and their dream amplifier design, independent of each other.

I do agree that tube like for soild state is the equivalent of analog like for digital.

Ron has the “analog like” Lampizator Baltic but only plays it for guests. That is a data point.

 

[morricab]

What preamp he used,that is crucial factor how Plinius sounds.like with every power amplifier the sound is adjusted beforehand, the power amplifier should only amplify properly, in my opinion.ypsilon thumbs up

He uses his Ayon Stratos DAC as a preamp. It actually has a fantastic output stage, using 2 x 6N30P per channel. Same output stage as my Ayon Skylla 2 DAC and Ayon CD-5s, which High Fidelity Poland said didn’t need a preamp…not even the Ayon Polaris III the reviewer used at that time.

 

[DasguteOhr]

He uses his Ayon Stratos DAC as a preamp. It actually has a fantastic output stage, using 2 x 6N30P per channel. Same output stage as my Ayon Skylla 2 DAC and Ayon CD-5s, which High Fidelity Poland said didn’t need a preamp…not even the Ayon Polaris III the reviewer used at that time.

I heard ayon dac /pre on geithain speaker. I didn't like it at all, it sounded too thin. The resolution of details was good. I was missing the tones in the voices that trigger emotions and no footwip factor. I no longer know the model name of the Ayon device.
I would try a manley steelhead pre (exelent phono with line stage input), allnic pre with plinius amp.
or ypsilon pst 100 as you suggest.

P.S not so expensive valvet soulshine really good sound good parts inthere

 

[Ron Resnick]

Somehow I cannot envisage Ron with a smoking solder iron in his paw

Actually, I grew up building Heathkits.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron's confirmation of what others have said is proof of nothing

I agree with this. I certainly do not take such comments as proof of anything (except when Grover Neville makes a comment, as he, as a graduate of the Oberlin Conservatory of Music, has genuinely trained and calibrated ears).

I do take such comments as food for thought. If multiple people make the same comment then I very likely would consider the comment to be accurate and valid -- which still does not mean I would change anything if I am happy with the sound.

 

[bonzo75]

I do take such comments as food for thought. If multiple people make the same comment then I very likely would consider the comment to be accurate and valid -- which still does not mean I would change anything if I am happy with the sound.

So, as forum members, we are discussing whether you consider them valid.

Whether you change or not is a separate discussion point – this can be a factor of personal taste, WAF, budget, and particularly in your case as you discussed, also that this hobby has a social aspect where people visit you want to cater to other tastes too.

More importantly, I was not discussing with Brad what you considered them - but the fact that Don and Phil did make those observations, which Brad with all intellectual dishonesty pooh poohed.

 

[cjfrbw]

IF compression is a characteristic of an amplifier, IMHO it is much more likely to be an issue of source, topology and devices used in the chain and amp rather than an issue related to power rating.

One of the reasons I shifted from VTL MB450 to 50 watt SET in the day is that the audible openness and fluidity of the upper midrange on the SET was clearly superior, placing SET on one channel and VTL on the other channel for comparison and going back and forth between the two. That was an issue of topology and devices, not power rating. SET just 'sounded' more linear than the other.

I have thought for some time that the power obsession is a triumph of commercialization and audio critic priestly anointing more than an actual cause and effect outside of frank and egregious clipping behavior. As said, the 'power cure' is the odd common ground between some objectivists and obsessive subjectivists.

I have had and heard powerful amps, medium power amps, and not so powerful amps. In terms of listening, I have not found that the power rating is related in and of itself to creating desirable listening characteristics (again short of frank clipping behavior). If somebody can hear the deficient 500th watt on those power transient peaks and that explains all issues of dynamic range, my hat is off to them.

 

[morricab]

So, as forum members, we are discussing whether you consider them valid.

Whether you change or not is a separate discussion point – this can be a factor of personal taste, WAF, budget, and particularly in your case as you discussed, also that this hobby has a social aspect where people visit you want to cater to other tastes too.

More importantly, I was not discussing with Brad what you considered them - but the fact that Don and Phil did make those observations, which Brad with all intellectual dishonesty pooh poohed.

I assure you my pooh pooh is intellectually honest

And that is about all your asinine comments deserve in response.

 

[morricab]

I agree with this. I certainly do not take such comments as proof of anything (except when Grover Neville makes a comment, as he, as a graduate of the Oberlin Conservatory of Music, has genuinely trained and calibrated ears).

I do take such comments as food for thought. If multiple people make the same comment then I very likely would consider the comment to be accurate and valid -- which still does not mean I would change anything if I am happy with the sound.

Sure, but the question is do you hear what they commented on? If not then there is no issue to consider.