Ron’s New System

[Ron Resnick]

If you want a wonderful midrange, you definitely need to listen to an EL 84 amp. This tube is clearly superior to the EL 34 in terms of resolution and smoothness. I can't say whether it has enough power, so the only thing that helps is to try it out.

Beard P35 Dual Mono Power Tube Amplifier | Reverb Deutschland

Tested and Working. This item was pulled from a working environment. Please look at all photos before purchasing, only what is included in the pictures is included in the sale. Will ship same day purchased in a professionally packaged box. (L)S195R

reverb.com

Thank you, but 35 watts simply is not going be enough.

 

[Argonaut]

Price would be limiting there I think...

Have we been advised of a budget ceiling ?

 

[Argonaut]

Y'all know I am happy to have members discuss anything audio-related on my system thread. But would you kindly please leave snarky shots at members and the stand-up comedy routines for the Humor and Joke thread?

Thank you.

Dear Ron … Are you addressing the Somewhat *Awkward A**hole * one or the *Sycophantic A**hole * one who has once again, and not for the first time, performed a Volte-face away from attacking you , Steve and the forum moderators over the Karmelli night of the long knives, and is now showering you with nauseating levels of empathy regarding your ongoing amplification conundrums ?

 

[Argonaut]

If you want a wonderful midrange, you definitely need to listen to an EL 84 amp. This tube is clearly superior to the EL 34 in terms of resolution and smoothness. I can't say whether it has enough power, so the only thing that helps is to try it out.

Beard P35 Dual Mono Power Tube Amplifier | Reverb Deutschland

Tested and Working. This item was pulled from a working environment. Please look at all photos before purchasing, only what is included in the pictures is included in the sale. Will ship same day purchased in a professionally packaged box. (L)S195R

reverb.com

I concur Stephan regarding the exceptional fidelity of the EL84 , either in standard PP circuits or triode strapped … quite exquisite vocal reproduction … However we are light years away from Rons requirements … unless we build an EL84 Hadron Collider

 

[DasguteOhr]

I concur Stephan regarding the exceptional fidelity of the EL84 , either in standard PP circuits or triode strapped … quite exquisite vocal reproduction … However we are light years away from Rons requirements … unless we build an EL84 Hadron Collider

A ribbon driver this size is a high impedance usually made of aluminum an easy to drive load good for tubes. The problem is the listening distance - the further away it is, the more power you need. In the near field, 35 watts are easily enough, so I'll hold any bet.
Exsample gryphon speaker
Sensitivity sound pressure in dB at 1 watt and 1 m 89dB/W/m
Amplifier power per speaker 35 watts
Number of speakers 2 pieces
Distance to the speakers 2.5 meters

?

Produced sound pressure level 100dB

 

[PeterA]

I totally agree with this. But there is a different factor which gnaws at me, which is that I have a lot of visitors and guests through the listening room, and I don't want to have created a super-custom sonic monster which appeals only and idiosyncratically to me.

In other words I do want the system to be competent generally. Otherwise I might just go with Viva Auroras at 22 watts!

Ron, it sounds like you really need two systems. Go for it, your house is big enough.

 

[Argonaut]

A ribbon driver this size is a high impedance usually made of aluminum an easy to drive load good for tubes. The problem is the listening distance - the further away it is, the more power you need. In the near field, 35 watts are easily enough, so I'll hold any bet.

The Beard 35 was a Hot Runner tho

 

[DasguteOhr]

The Beard 35 was a Hot Runner tho

Yes..good build quiet powersupply, every el 84 tube have a current regulator

 

[morricab]

A ribbon driver this size is a high impedance usually made of aluminum an easy to drive load good for tubes. The problem is the listening distance - the further away it is, the more power you need. In the near field, 35 watts are easily enough, so I'll hold any bet.
Exsample gryphon speaker
Sensitivity sound pressure in dB at 1 watt and 1 m 89dB/W/m
Amplifier power per speaker 35 watts
Number of speakers 2 pieces
Distance to the speakers 2.5 meters

?

Produced sound pressure level 100dB

One of our esteemed members is getting by on much less power than this EL 84 amp. He is at a much closer distance but keep in mind it is a tall line source that falls off more gradually with distance.

 

[morricab]

Yes..good build quiet powersupply, every el 84 tube have a current regulator
View attachment 118731

Silvaweld also made a nice pair of monos with the 6C19pi, an EL84 sized power triode…they were good for about 45 watts/channel.

 

[morricab]

Have we been advised of a budget ceiling ?

Not directly

 

[Argonaut]

Yes..good build quiet powersupply, every el 84 tube have a current regulator
View attachment 118731

Yup … Old School , The circuit wiring left something to be desired tho , A friend owned one with a burnt out OPT … Or was it the Mains ? I cannot exactly recall , we wired her up with Hashimoto wide bandwidth OPT and bulked up the mains … ran cooler and the fidelity was beyond exceptional driving stacked Quad 57’s

 

[Argonaut]

Silvaweld also made a nice pair of monos with the 6C19pi, an EL84 sized power triode…they were good for about 45 watts/channel.

Which model was that Brad ?

 

[DasguteOhr]

View attachment 118733

Silvaweld also made a nice pair of monos with the 6C19pi, an EL84 sized power triode…they were good for about 45 watts/channel.

Soo good amps model m60 runs at a friend with leedh psyche speaker

 

[dan31]

Ron have you read Scott Frankland's comments about EL34 tube and designing an amplifier to take advantage of the EL34 properties?

franklandinterview

Its a nice read and keeps me interested in EL34 based amplifiers and tube amplification in general.

EL34 tube shoot out in Vacuum Tube Valley Issue 16.

https://www.worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Audio/Archive-Vacuum-Tube-Valley/Vacuum-Tube-Valley-Issue-16.pdf

 

[bonzo75]

I had dinner with Don last night and, reflecting on his last couple of visits, Don thinks that while the system now sounds "like music," he thinks the 80 watt power level is sacrificing some of the expanded soundstage space and air that he heard with the VTLs. With Don's focus on big classical, he said that if it were him, he would aim for a power level of 200 watts to 300 watts.

Don is extremely good at hearing sound-staging and air and space, something of which I have always been critical of myself. Nothing specifically actionable for me in his comment, but it inclines me to consider around 80 wants to be the floor. This would take out of contention Thrax Spartacus 300B and Absolare SET.

It puts back into contention NAT Magma Evo, but I think Kedar said Magma will not have the upper bass to lower midrange warmth and weightiness of Jadis.

So these are the data points we have

1. Ron bought these speakers after he heard them with Gryphon amps
2. The Mono and Stereo guy used Vitus Masterpiece on them,
3.. The Indonseian/Singapore owner used Gryphon and CH. No other examples reported from owners, IIRC
4. Phil thinks lacks headroom with Jadis
5. Don thinks lacks headroom with Jadis
6. Mahler 3 video lacks headroom with Jadis

I would try the Thrax 100w hybrid.

I would also try Soulution preamp with hybrids and valve amps.

I also think this is a great opportunity for dealers reading this, to drive over to Ron's with a preamp and powerful SS amp. Ron will never do this demo himself, so just drive them over, plug them in for whatever your warm up period, and let Ron listen to them the next day. You might be able to surprise him and get a sale

 

[the sound of Tao]

Ron, you should just suck it up and push the big Drina button… otherwise Ked will not stop till you’re bound and gagged in solid state nirvana!



Please check out the comments below from mono stereo…

“The Trafomatic Drina is beyond hyperbole (this amp was made for you Ron!!) It is quite simply the most monstrous DHT amplifier ever executed. It's inner voltages are lethal. It's outer beauty unparalleled. (Lethal AND beautiful, just like Lola!!) It has driven everything we've cared to put up against it with relaxed ease.”

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron, you should just suck it up and push the big Drina button… otherwise Ked will not stop till you’re bound and gagged in solid state nirvana!

View attachment 118770

Please check out the comments below from mono stereo…

“The Trafomatic Drina is beyond hyperbole (this amp was made for you Ron!!) It is quite simply the most monstrous DHT amplifier ever executed. It's inner voltages are lethal. It's outer beauty unparalleled. (Lethal AND beautiful, just like Lola!!) It has driven everything we've cared to put up against it with relaxed ease.”

There is only one pair in existence, now offered used. I was in the beginning stage of negotiating to buy this pair, but it was too expensive to consider further.

 

[cjfrbw]

Well, to beat a dead horse again, I run my 75 inchers (albeit direct drive/ no passive crossover) quite well (albeit smaller room 9’by 9’ by 9’ equilateral triangle setup) with 2 watts doing OK, 3.5 watts very good, 5 watts more than enough, routinely single ended Sony VFET 2SK60 (Pass DIY design)@ about 8 watts into 6 ohms. 15 watt Wavac is a monster amp. 50 watt Wavac is actually more than I care to test it with.

Even if you could actually hear amplifier compression in situ isolation from other components (which I would imagine is debatable in and of itself) how do you know it is the amplifier, or are you hearing some other source of compression, or are you just hearing signal compression louder so you hear it better? What bands exactly would these heard compression be in?

Just as a thought experiment, you would have to have a totally uncompressed source signal (0 to 120 db), it would have to be going through a provably uncompressed preamplifier, with a provably uncompressing speaker (yes, they can compress, too). Then, you might start arguing about whether you are hearing amplifier compression or not and whether it is distinctly audible and in which audio segments.

Since the vast majority of signals from mastering studios have all kinds of compressions already in their signals, how do you go about isolating one from the other when you are playing very loud?

Obviously, I am from the first couple of watts school rather than obsessing over the 500th watt completing a hypothetical transient school, so there is my bent.

 

[morricab]

Well, to beat a dead horse again, I run my 75 inchers (albeit direct drive/ no passive crossover) quite well (albeit smaller room 9’by 9’ by 9’ equilateral triangle setup) with 2 watts doing OK, 3.5 watts very good, 5 watts more than enough, routinely single ended Sony VFET 2SK60 (Pass DIY design)@ about 8 watts into 6 ohms. 15 watt Wavac is a monster amp. 50 watt Wavac is actually more than I care to test it with.

Even if you could actually hear amplifier compression in situ isolation from other components (which I would imagine is debatable in and of itself) how do you know it is the amplifier, or are you hearing some other source of compression, or are you just hearing signal compression louder so you hear it better? What bands exactly would these heard compression be in?

Just as a thought experiment, you would have to have a totally uncompressed source signal (0 to 120 db), it would have to be going through a provably uncompressed preamplifier, with a provably uncompressing speaker (yes, they can compress, too). Then, you might start arguing about whether you are hearing amplifier compression or not and whether it is distinctly audible and in which audio segments.

Since the vast majority of signals from mastering studios have all kinds of compressions already in their signals, how do you go about isolating one from the other when you are playing very loud?

Obviously, I am from the first couple of watts school rather than obsessing over the 500th watt completing a hypothetical transient school, so there is my bent.

Heretic!! We KNOW what you say can’t be true…even though we haven’t tried it ourselves and the math basically works out…