My theories are intended to be food-for thought attempts to understand and to explain a statistically significant amount of audiophile behavior. They are social science theories, inherently with many exceptions, not natural science theories with no exceptions.
I believe in giving credit where credit is due. David Karmeli was one of the very few people who suggested that one cannot assume that one will have a noise problem running 50 feet of single-ended interconnect.
[EDIT;] Personal comment directed at another member was deleted. Please refrain from speaking about a member of this forum. Rather, talk about the subject at hand.
Correct,but long cable routes severely limit the choice of devices. I wouldn't dream of using more 10 feet cables. All the beautiful tube preamps with simple circuitry all fall through the cracks. It is the preamp that determines the sound and not the power amplifier.
Correct,but long cable routes severely limit the choice of devices. I wouldn't dream of using more 10 feet cables. All the beautiful tube preamps with simple circuitry all fall through the cracks.
I believe in giving credit where credit is due. David Karmeli was one of the very few people who suggested that one cannot assume that one will have a noise problem running 50 feet of single-ended interconnect.
David Karmeli offers excellent advice. I just set up a Micro Seiki SX 8000 II for a friend yesterday with SME3012R tonearm and Airtight supreme cartridge. David Karmeli found this turntable after a request made by my friend. It is from about 1980 and it’s in perfect 10/10 Bristol condition. 40 years later, this turntable looks as though it was built yesterday and was just taken out of the box. It looks and functions perfectly. David Karmeli is responsible for locating this turntable and selling it to my friend.
As Ron wrote, he gives credit where credit is due. David Karmeli was correct that you cannot simply assume a 50 foot single ended cable will produce noise. I respect Ron for acknowledging publicly, within an atmosphere at WBF fairly hostile to ddk, that David’s advice was correct.
a very special device, you can like it,but you don't have to. the input and output transformers determine the sound not the tubes. I'm not a big fan of it. An interstage transformer is ok as a replacement for a coupling capacitor between the stages.
But tastes are different and that's a good thing.
P.S
I drive with one tube 6h30 parallel linestage three power amps 10feet cable works good
Ron, until you use the same cable at a short distance, how do you know it is not adding noise at 50 ft? Your experiment was to try two different cables at 50, not try same type of cable at 5 Vs 50
Ron, this snakes nest supplies signal and power to the best system I’ve ever heard. 115 DB speakers and I heard resolution and lack of noise and distortion like nowhere else. You’ve heard this system and it’s a good example opposed to the conventional wisdom of cable lengths, cable type, and cable dressing.
Ron, this snakes nest supplies signal and power to the best system I’ve ever heard. 115 DB speakers and I heard resolution and lack of noise and distortion like nowhere else. You’ve heard this system and it’s a good example opposed to the conventional wisdom of cable lengths, cable type, and cable dressing.
So this system arrangement does music reproduction better than when the cables are “arranged according to the conventional wisdom of cable lengths, cable type, and cable dressing”? May I ask what your impressions were of the comparison?
And just a general observation re very long single ended interconnects cables (not addressed at you Peter per se), RF and EMI effects don’t have to be causing audible hum or background hiss, perhaps more insidious is the blurring and blunting of micro dynamics, and the skewing of instrumental and vocal overtones - especially at higher volume and pitch range. These are issues that can be difficult to diagnose without direct comparison as Kedar alludes to above.
Ron, until you use the same cable at a short distance, how do you know it is not adding noise at 50 ft? Your experiment was to try two different cables at 50, not try same type of cable at 5 Vs 50
So this system arrangement does music reproduction better than when the cables are “arranged according to the conventional wisdom of cable lengths, cable type, and cable dressing”? May I ask what your impressions were of the comparison?
And just a general observation re very long single ended interconnects cables (not addressed at you Peter per se), RF and EMI effects don’t have to be causing audible hum or background hiss, perhaps more insidious is the blurring and blunting of micro dynamics, and the skewing of instrumental and vocal overtones - especially at higher volume and pitch range. These are issues that can be difficult to diagnose without direct comparison as Kedar alludes to above.
Scott, I never made such a claim nor did I ever say I made such a comparison. Why are you making so many assumptions? I simply wrote that this haphazard pile of cables delivers power and signal in the best system I’ve ever heard. I share the experience because it surprised me and is counter to the conventional wisdom. The resolution in the system is superb and because the system is so efficient I would’ve expected to hear noise from such a haphazard arrangement. Just an example and I’m not claiming anything greater.
Noise is not an issue with cables, unless they are poorly soldered or have bad connectors or the excess length is rolled up like a coil. Other things come into play with long cables. Here the topic has been addressed and measured.
I am listening to The Carpenters The Singles on tape. We Eva Cassidy devotees should not forget about Karen Carpenter. I actually think Karen has a more impressive voice than Eva.
I'd dismissed Karen Carpenter decades ago as top-40 pablum, but enjoy listening to the Carpenters The Single occasionally. She was a true vocal genius and her songs (once I get past the syrupy strings) are fantastic.
Correct,but long cable routes severely limit the choice of devices. I wouldn't dream of using more 10 feet cables. All the beautiful tube preamps with simple circuitry all fall through the cracks. It is the preamp that determines the sound and not the power amplifier.
You seem to have a very strong knowledge base so I hesitate to respond other than to say personal experience would indicate that long unbalanced interconnect runs do not necessarily compromise or add audible noise to the sound.
I can't say I have compared long run interconnects to long run speaker cables for quite some time. How many actually have , perhaps I could be persuaded?
Still I have always felt having all your gear, especially vibration sensitive components like turntables and tube preamps, between or beside the speakers to be counterproductive both visually and sonically. I am comfortable with my power amp strategically placed between the speakers with short speaker cable.
I do agree that the preamp plays the leading role as far as sound. Perhaps simple circuitry in a tube preamp doesn't necessarily preclude it from being used with a longer run?
I do agree that the preamp plays the leading role as far as sound. Perhaps simple circuitry in a tube preamp doesn't necessarily preclude it from being used with a longer run?
You seem to have a very strong knowledge base so I hesitate to respond other than to say personal experience would indicate that long unbalanced interconnect runs do not necessarily compromise or add audible noise to the sound.
I can't say I have compared long run interconnects to long run speaker cables for quite some time. How many actually have , perhaps I could be persuaded?
Still I have always felt having all your gear, especially vibration sensitive components like turntables and tube preamps, between or beside the speakers to be counterproductive both visually and sonically. I am comfortable with my power amp strategically placed between the speakers with short speaker cable.
I do agree that the preamp plays the leading role as far as sound. Perhaps simple circuitry in a tube preamp doesn't necessarily preclude it from being used with a longer run?
I would no signal sources be positioned in the middle between the speakers, there the sound pressure is maximum + 6db (center location of the voice and bass. Directly in the corner of the room even worse up to + 9db sound pressure (room modes.) I think it makes sense to use short loudspeaker cables . More control from the amp over speakers with tubes even more noticeable than SS amp (higher damping factor).
Every additional meter of signalcable kills dynamic and open 3D sound. keep it short as possible. my opinion and experience that I have had. When it comes to preamps, I find concepts with one or two amplifier stages where triode systems are connected in parallel are better. They deliver more current and lower impedance to drive long cable routes or several power amplifiers without any problems. For example ECC99/6NP6 /6H30 tubes
I would no signal sources be positioned in the middle between the speakers, there the sound pressure is maximum + 6db (center location of the voice and bass. Directly in the corner of the room even worse up to + 9db sound pressure (room modes.) I think it makes sense to use short loudspeaker cables . More control from the amp over speakers with tubes even more noticeable than SS amp (higher damping factor).
Every additional meter of signalcable kills dynamic and open 3D sound. keep it short as possible. my opinion and experience that I have had. When it comes to preamps, I find concepts with one or two amplifier stages where triode systems are connected in parallel are better. They deliver more current and lower impedance to drive long cable routes or several power amplifiers without any problems. For example ECC99/6NP6 /6H30 tubes
We seem to agree. Shorter cabling of all types is ultimately preferable although I guess I would add not always practical.
Good point on the room modes! When I position an amplifier somewhere between my speakers I very unscientifically listen to the sound between the speakers, fore and aft, and select a spot where I hear the least bass. There are also a few room mode calculators on the internet that can also be helpful in giving you a rough idea of where the trouble spots are likely to be.
The noise is not only from the length , your system would have to be fully balanced to benefit from balanced cables and if not , running balanced cables kills dynamics over a good SE cable in a non balanced system ..
!!
