Ron’s New System

[Ron Resnick]

The panels are currently absorbing sound at certain ratios over a moderate frequency range then reflecting the remainder so those reflected fr will be causing smear with the direct sound .. this will direct at least any higher fr away from your listening spot ... and hopefully more clarity and more solid sound stage .. if you partially overlay them .. tuck one in say half distance or so behind the other it should be more effective lower down ... anyway that's the theory

Interesting! Thank you!

I have no way to keep them standing up straight at that angle, however.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Who recommended Absorption at side wall first reflection ? I would invariably go for Diffusion or a combi Diffusion / Absorption panel at that point Viz https://gikacoustics.co.uk/product-category/diffusion-products/

I think diffusion at the points of reflection is more common than absorption.

 

[Argonaut]

I think diffusion at the points of reflection is more common than absorption.

Just so , your first reflection point panels appear to be vanilla absorption ?

 

[pjwd]

I think diffusion at the points of reflection is more common than absorption.

Diffusion does change phase and does not correlate with direct sound .. best is redirection in my view

 

[pjwd]

Interesting! Thank you!

I have no way to keep them standing up straight at that angle, however.

Just prop outer edge with a few books or unused amps and lean against one corner

 

[morricab]

Given the main tower is a dipole, this means a figure 8 radiation pattern. As such there is not a significant issue with first reflection as with a conventional non-dipole speaker. I never put any sidewall treatment for an of my big Stat or Ribbon dipoles, Absorption or diffusion. At the very least it should be much further away from the speaker because the first wall interaction will be much further into the room.

 

[Argonaut]

Given the main tower is a dipole, this means a figure 8 radiation pattern. As such there is not a significant issue with first reflection as with a conventional non-dipole speaker

Yup , I found vanishingly little benefit when experimenting at side wall first reflection points when I was running the ML CLX ANI’s

 

[PeterA]

Ron, if you are not using the big VTL amps , why not move them out of the room with the help of all your visitors? It might even help the acoustics.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron, if you are not using the big VTL amps , why not move them out of the room with the help of all your visitors? It might even help the acoustics.

Thank you, Peter. I did exactly that yesterday.

 

[PeterA]

Ron, I was hoping you might be able to observe a difference in the sound by removing those amplifiers from the room, but it seems like you added the panels around the same time so can’t isolate the changes.

How does the system sound overall now with the addition of the new panels in the upper front corners? Do you have a new photograph from the listening seat showing all of the acoustic treatment in the room? Or maybe from one of the rear corners.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron, I was hoping you might be able to observe a difference in the sound by removing those amplifiers from the room

The VTLs were right behind the Gryphon amplifiers in the woofer towers. In theory the front of the amplifiers could have been reflecting to the enclosed rear of the woofer towers a bit of sonic information from the panels. I don't believe I (or likely anyone else) would've been able to hear any difference.

How does the system sound overall now with the addition of the new panels in the upper front corners?

When I talk and clap near the front wall I hear less reverberation and less slap echo. The walls which were treated yesterday are the closest parallel walls in the entire room, so it makes sense that treating those walls so sound does not reverberate between them would be good bang for the buck in terms of reverberation reduced.

Do you have a new photograph from the listening seat showing all of the acoustic treatment in the room? Or maybe from one of the rear corners.

This is from the listening chair. I moved the camera to wide-angle position, which makes the room like much longer and bigger than it really is.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Peter, these photos were taken from the left rear corner and right rear corner of the room.

 

[Ron Resnick]

The one experiment I am planning to make in the near future is to replace the two acoustic panels behind each pair of speaker towers with one acoustic panel directly behind each ribbon panel.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Subjectively, the room seems "quiet," but far from obviously over-damped.

At some point maybe I'll experiment with taking out the pair of side wall absorbers behind the speakers, or the pair of side wall absorbers in front of the speakers.

 

[Bobvin]

Ron, I haven’t kept up… are all those absorbing panels?

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron, I haven’t kept up… are all those absorbing panels?

yes

 

[Salectric]

At some point maybe I'll experiment with taking out the pair of side wall absorbers behind the speakers, or the pair of side wall absorbers in front of the speakers.

I am pleased you said this Ron. I didn’t want to dampen your enthusiasm (so to speak) but in my experience side wall absorbers at the first reflection points have never sounded right. They make the soundstage smaller and the music sound too damped. This has been true for me with dipoles (ML CLS), cones in a box, horns and open baffle. Many people think just the opposite so I won’t say my way is best, just that you should try it both ways and reach your own conclusion.

 

[Bobvin]

Argonaut‘s link to GIK page above shows mostly different variations on BAD panels, with more stylistic diffusion grids than the grid beneath the original RPG BAD panels. (https://www.rpgeurope.com/products/product/bad.html) I am surprised with all the comments I have read in so many places (and my own experience) you'd have opted for strictly absorbing panels at the reflection points (and elsewhere). Friends who’ve used GIK absorbers and then instead have used some of the BAD type panels have always kept the latter and had better results.

Of course, my own room would be more damped than yours given built-in custom BAD panels throughout per Bonnie’s spec, but I’ve not had comments from anyone it is over-damped. The closest to that might have been Daniele of Alsyvox who, when he visited, preferred the curtains in the back of the room to be more opened, which allowed more of the ambient (and reverberant) energy of the stairways and hallways to become part of the acoustic. (That all behind the listening position, similar to your space opening to the side of your room.)

 

[PeterA]

Thanks Ron. I just wanted to get a sense of how much treatment you have in the room.

My old Pass amps rang like crazy when I shouted or clapped my hands anywhere near them. I was happy to get that ringing out of the room. I never listened with the Lamm SETs in place with the Pass still in the room, so I do not know the actual effect on the sound.

 

[Folsom]

perhaps more insidious is the blurring and blunting of micro dynamics, and the skewing of instrumental and vocal overtones - especially at higher volume and pitch range.

That would be really bad, if it were actually happening.