Ron’s New System

[pjwd]

I am happy for you that the Impera Sig is a final destination pre-amp for you!

Would you say the Incito S is a bit fuller or warmer or "bloomier" than Impera Sig?

In day-to-day practice doesn't it annoy you not to have a full set of controls on the preamp itself, as opposed to relying solely on a remote control?

There again I heard them quite a bit apart but I think the sig is a similar sound but digs deeper into the detail and has better separation of instruments, quieter background etc.
I guess you could construe that as more " bloom" in the incito but I would call it more detail in the sig. They are both exciting. The incito is very good value I think.
The remote has not been a problem at all .. surprisingly I don't loose it like I thought I would .. it's pretty hefty so that helps.
The thing that does annoy me is the power switch on the back of psu .. not so bad on incito as it is easy to reach .. but awkward on the sig unless it's on top of the rack
Phil

 

[Ron Resnick]

There again I heard them quite a bit apart but I think the sig is a similar sound but digs deeper into the detail and has better separation of instruments, quieter background etc.
I guess you could construe that as more " bloom" in the incito but I would call it more detail in the sig. They are both exciting. The incito is very good value I think.
The remote has not been a problem at all .. surprisingly I don't loose it like I thought I would .. it's pretty hefty so that helps.
The thing that does annoy me is the power switch on the back of psu .. not so bad on incito as it is easy to reach .. but awkward on the sig unless it's on top of the rack
Phil

Thank you!

(The way my stuff is arranged I would need two remotes, because it would be very annoying to have to remember to pick up the remote from a guest every time I walk to the other room -- and then walk past the preamp -- continuing on the way to a source. Then, when I walk back to the listening room, and I pass the preamp on the way, I often change source input or volume on my way to the listening room. So it would be pretty inconvenient for me not to have controls on the preamp itself.)

 

[Ron Resnick]

Incoming are Cardas custom Clear Reflection (no Rhodium) interconnects and custom "Y" splitters so I can switch the 47 foot interconnect run and the current mixed RCA and XLR Y adapters and the VTLs to all single-ended.

 

[Ron Resnick]

The only balanced cables left in the system are from the output of the Io to the input of the Hegel preamp. Everything else (including the Baltic 4) is single-ended.

Even though I am admonished frequently to use only balanced cables in an interconnect run totaling almost 60 feet, and despite a lot of AC outlet noise picked up on my Tri-Field meter, I hear no increase in noise from swapping to all of the single-ended connections and cables. Balanced theory aside, I think valor favors staying with single-ended, since that is the native topology of Jadis amplifiers. This is also why I'm leaning towards a natively single-ended line stage pre-amplifier.

I spent the morning trying to set the new temperature on the VTLs using my Electronic Visionary Systems in-line attenuators to properly cook the woofers in this new single-ended cable configuration.

 

[PeterA]

Ron, what do you mean by "cooking the woofers"?

Could you clarify what components you are listening to now as a main system - preamp, amp, speakers? I seem to have lost track.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I have a pair of the EVS 1Kohm attenuators and a pair of the EVS 10Kohm attenuators.

I put the attenuators in-line between my pre-amplifier and my woofer amplifier to attenuate the line-level signal going into the woofer amplifier.

The preamp has an output impedance of less than 50 ohms. The VTL amplifier has an input impedance of 45Kohms.

Would one of our engineers please calculate if I should use the 1K or the 10K attenuators?

(I am thinking the 10K attenuator, because it loads down the preamplifier less.)

Thank you!

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron, what do you mean by "cooking the woofers"?

Please see: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1162387938799728/permalink/1163039155401273/?mibextid=S66gvF

 

[Ron Resnick]

Could you clarify what components you are listening to now as a main system - preamp, amp, speakers? I seem to have lost track.

Hegel P30A preamp
Jadis JA100 amplifier --> midrange/tweeter
VTL Siegfried II amplifier --> woofer cooker
Clarisys Studio loudspeaker
Cardas Clear Reflection single-ended interconnects

 

[PeterA]

Thanks Ron. Interesting description and name for what you are doing with your two amps into the speakers. Mixing the pre and amps is interesting too. Glad to read you are enjoying the sound

 

[Lagonda]

Please see: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1162387938799728/permalink/1163039155401273/?mibextid=S66gvF

You are passively bi-amping your speakers with 2 different sets of mono tube amps ?

 

[Ron Resnick]

You are passively bi-amping your speakers with 2 different sets of mono tube amps ?

yes

 

[Ron Resnick]

Thanks Ron. Interesting description and name for what you are doing with your two amps into the speakers. Mixing the pre and amps is interesting too. Glad to read you are enjoying the sound

Thank you!

It turns out the Hegel has oddly low gain of about 5dB. I am enjoying my line stage pre-amplifier search.

 

[Billygxx]

There again I heard them quite a bit apart but I think the sig is a similar sound but digs deeper into the detail and has better separation of instruments, quieter background etc.
I guess you could construe that as more " bloom" in the incito but I would call it more detail in the sig. They are both exciting. The incito is very good value I think.
The remote has not been a problem at all .. surprisingly I don't loose it like I thought I would .. it's pretty hefty so that helps.
The thing that does annoy me is the power switch on the back of psu .. not so bad on incito as it is easy to reach .. but awkward on the sig unless it's on top of the rack
Phil

Just my personal opinion and i used to own the Impera Sig, The Incito just isn't in the same league- at all. Massive jump in performance with the Impera. I currently own the Virgo but feel the improvement of the Virgo(almost double the cost of Impera) over the Impera is more subtle than the delta between Incito and Impera.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Just my personal opinion and i used to own the Impera Sig, The Incito just isn't in the same league- at all. Massive jump in performance with the Impera. I currently own the Virgo but feel the improvement of the Virgo(almost double the cost of Impera) over the Impera is more subtle than the delta between Incito and Impera.

Thank you for comment, Billy!

How would you describe the specific differences in sonic characteristics between the Incito S and the Impera Sig?

 

[Billygxx]

Thank you for comment, Billy!

How would you describe the specific differences in sonic characteristics between the Incito S and the Impera Sig?

Now I feel a bit guilty beating up on the Incito-S. It does possess some of the romance of the A-C components but I think bloom may be the right word. The music lacks both clarity and separation. The AC hybrid Ageto achieves crystal clarity with better than SS like accuracy but lacks some of the beauty of the Impera. The Impera achieves much better separation of voices and instruments than Incito(at 5x the price)and just seems more like the real thing and it’s just plain beautiful.
I was listening to a comparison of a much more expensive Absolare and an Incito a few years back and it sounded almost midfielders on direct comparison but the Absolare was an almost 50k preamp. I think for tube lovers the Virgo will be the preferred AC preamp and for SS lovers the Ageto will win them over. It’s actually a hybrid but truly retains the some of the best qualities of both. The comparison I want to hear is Ageto vs Virgo. Maybe Stavros for the sake of this thread would grant an audio audition of them both. I would love to get your view with regard to whether anything better exists out there at any price.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Don visited this evening for about three hours. He is now the fifth out of five visitors to declare that this the best sound they've heard from my room + system. Woofer cooking works!

 

[Ron Resnick]

Now I feel a bit guilty beating up on the Incito-S. It does possess some of the romance of the A-C components but I think bloom may be the right word. The music lacks both clarity and separation. The AC hybrid Ageto achieves crystal clarity with better than SS like accuracy but lacks some of the beauty of the Impera. The Impera achieves much better separation of voices and instruments than Incito(at 5x the price)and just seems more like the real thing and it’s just plain beautiful.
I was listening to a comparison of a much more expensive Absolare and an Incito a few years back and it sounded almost midfielders on direct comparison but the Absolare was an almost 50k preamp. I think for tube lovers the Virgo will be the preferred AC preamp and for SS lovers the Ageto will win them over. It’s actually a hybrid but truly retains the some of the best qualities of both. The comparison I want to hear is Ageto vs Virgo. Maybe Stavros for the sake of this thread would grant an audio audition of them both. I would love to get your view with regard to whether anything better exists out there at any price.

Very, very interesting Billy! Thank you very much!

So between the Incito S and the Impera there is a trade-off between bloom and warmth versus resolution and clarity?

How would you describe the Incito versus the Absolare preamp you heard a few years back?

 

[DasguteOhr]

You are passively bi-amping your speakers with 2 different sets of mono tube amps ?

Why not? You can also listen to speakers with different driver manufacturers and in the end it works wonderfully. It's no different with amplifiers, adjust the volume, pay attention to the phase (measure then it works. I've been doing that for years, for example in bass, always with transistor amps, they simply have more control and a higher current delivery capacity for a bass driver.

 

[DasguteOhr]

I have a pair of the EVS 1Kohm attenuators and a pair of the EVS 10Kohm attenuators.

I put the attenuators in-line between my pre-amplifier and my woofer amplifier to attenuate the line-level signal going into the woofer amplifier.

The preamp has an output impedance of less than 50 ohms. The VTL amplifier has an input impedance of 45Kohms.

Would one of our engineers please calculate if I should use the 1K or the 10K attenuators?

(I am thinking the 10K attenuator, because it loads down the preamplifier less.)

Thank you!

In principle, it is no different than if you were to insert a passive preamp from the source to the power amp. Go as high as possible with the resistance value. The smaller influence you have when you are running multiple amps.

 

[Argonaut]

Nice to see you posting Billy :0}