That may not be the right question -- apples vs oranges.
The relative differences between cable A and cable B can bigger or smaller. Choose whatever adjective you want to describe the amount of difference.
Ron’s New System
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
- Start date
That may not be the right question -- apples vs oranges.
The relative differences between cable A and cable B can bigger or smaller. Choose whatever adjective you want to describe the amount of difference.
I have an opinion concerning power which includes cords and IC's. As I have said repeatedly I'm a layperson. As a practicing ER physician for 34 years I haven't had the time to listen to cords and IC's as many of you have. I have had to form my purchases from reading reviews, opinions such as yours on WBF, etc., but I nevertheless feel my opinion is valuable because I represent a significant block of folks that fall into my category. For example I'm a bit of an expert on Wilson Pedestals because I have bought so many of them and I have folks ask me about them that love Wilsons.
Decades ago I felt there wasn't much difference between well made Cords and IC's. I ordered a KK Copper Select 24' balanced IC from my dealer. While I was waiting they loaned me a Cardas 24" IC to use. When my KK arrived I was quite surprised how much better the Cardas sounded. It just sounded better and not by a little bit to my ears. I asked why and was told that Cardas was a superior cable.
I never forgot that. I became convinced that power begins at the fuse box. I did a lot of reading about what I was going to buy when I made my big purchase after I bought my XVX and I decided on Wel Signature for all my IC's and Dragons for my cords. I subsequently use a 1-meter Dragon balanced IC to connect my MCD12000 to my C-12000. So the heart of my system is this plus a 24' balanced Wel to my MC3500 and a 3-meter Wel speaker cable to my XVX. The Wel balanced IC is a massive cable, quite stiff, but superbly well made.
There's no possible way I could audition cables like you all. They are specially made and I had to make a significant down payment to begin with. I felt and hoped that AQ solid silver would be an excellent match for McIntosh and I haven't been disappointed. I'm a retired physician who has invested quite well but has a limited budget. My above Wels retail for about 68K and my Dragon for about 11K.
The above is a clear example of how an anecdotal experience can rightly or wrongly alter the way you might view the relative importance or weight you assign to the way you spend your money on your high end system. If I had continued to use KK Copper Select, then have I totally wasted all this money that could be better spent elsewhere? There's certainly nothing wrong with an extremely well made copper cable. I have no idea. I also believe that if you are going to use Cardas IC's, then use Cardas for cords and cables, etc. I like AQ because I can use their top line power conditioners, IC's, and cables, and I believe in synergy, which is another topic altogether.
Charles
Decades ago I felt there wasn't much difference between well made Cords and IC's. I ordered a KK Copper Select 24' balanced IC from my dealer. While I was waiting they loaned me a Cardas 24" IC to use. When my KK arrived I was quite surprised how much better the Cardas sounded. It just sounded better and not by a little bit to my ears. I asked why and was told that Cardas was a superior cable.
I never forgot that. I became convinced that power begins at the fuse box. I did a lot of reading about what I was going to buy when I made my big purchase after I bought my XVX and I decided on Wel Signature for all my IC's and Dragons for my cords. I subsequently use a 1-meter Dragon balanced IC to connect my MCD12000 to my C-12000. So the heart of my system is this plus a 24' balanced Wel to my MC3500 and a 3-meter Wel speaker cable to my XVX. The Wel balanced IC is a massive cable, quite stiff, but superbly well made.
There's no possible way I could audition cables like you all. They are specially made and I had to make a significant down payment to begin with. I felt and hoped that AQ solid silver would be an excellent match for McIntosh and I haven't been disappointed. I'm a retired physician who has invested quite well but has a limited budget. My above Wels retail for about 68K and my Dragon for about 11K.
The above is a clear example of how an anecdotal experience can rightly or wrongly alter the way you might view the relative importance or weight you assign to the way you spend your money on your high end system. If I had continued to use KK Copper Select, then have I totally wasted all this money that could be better spent elsewhere? There's certainly nothing wrong with an extremely well made copper cable. I have no idea. I also believe that if you are going to use Cardas IC's, then use Cardas for cords and cables, etc. I like AQ because I can use their top line power conditioners, IC's, and cables, and I believe in synergy, which is another topic altogether.
Charles
If I had to give some practical advice: bite the bullet and order a long enough cord or cable. I initially ordered a 22' Wel IC. I told AQ and the powers that be that unless I got an extra 2-feet, forget it. They gave in and I got my 2-feet. Years later, if I hadn't got that extra 2-feet the IC would not have easily reached to my most distant 3500. It's a really long solid silver balance IC, probably 25', although I say 24'. Very valuable. Also, always order two of the same length. There's about 13' of difference between my two 3500's. I think different length power cords don't matter.
Charles
Charles
What would be one example in your personal experience of the sonic difference between two interconnects making a bigger difference in sound than the sonic difference between two amplifiers?
Yes, fair enough.
I personally would not use the adjective "tremendous" to describe differences between any interconnects or differences between any power cables.
Ron, my statement was about cables making a tremendous difference, so choose carefully. I could have added the word “can”. Obviously, they do not always make a huge difference. Some have thought I do not care about cables because mine are cheap non audiophile grade. Simply not true. I care a lot about the cables in my system.
I don’t know why you bring up other component categories? What do they have to do with my comment? Why introduced amps out of nowhere? That is just a distraction.
Anyway, here is one example: My Transparent Audio ICs versus Radio Shack ICs made more of a difference in my old system than did a comparison between Pass XA160.5 and XA160.8. Same with the stock power cords versus Zenwave power cords. In both cases, I preferred the less expensive wire and cords by a big margin in all areas of natural sound than the relatively minor differences between the amps.
The problem with the fancy cords and wires is that once I identified what they did, I heard it on everything as a coloration I could not live with longer term.
With the right cables I don’t need the rest of the system at all…
No - just screem into the cables and the sound will come out perfectlyWith the right cables I don’t need the rest of the system at all…
!!
Thank you for explaining.
I agree.
I know you do. I share the view that just because cables are more expensive does not mean that we will like them more than cheaper cables between any two particular components in our own home system.
This is the kind of cross-component example I was fishing for. Thank you.
I will add this since for some reason you brought in other components into my statement to mix things up a bit.
As I have gained experience in this hobby, one of the things I listen for and place priority on, is a cable or a component that does not do anything wrong, nothing easily identifiable that distracts me from the music. This is why I have generally preferred standard wires and cords.
Of course you have a much different system and likely different priorities and values so may reach different conclusions.
the term i use for this is...... 'get's out of the way of the music', and related..... 'does not overlay any sameness to the music'. or.... 'each recording has it's own character'. these things are sometimes where gear fails, or comparatively ends up not measuring up to other gear. but it's especially important with cables.
agree that 'standard' wires and cables can be more this 'minimal character' way. but those can also miss important purely musical things too. the hard part is to get it all, but not add coloration. or decide decisively that you prefer coloration after identifying it.
Of course. That is why I suggest choosing carefully. Some commercial/industrial wires and cords are better than others. Just listen and decide based on your own criteria.
There are plenty of audiophile cable manufacturers and many of them have multiple tiered lines. Those need to differentiate themselves from each other in a competitive market to accommodate price scales and differentiate themselves from other manufacturers. I hear less difference (less coloration) between low cost industrial-like cables, say between Mogami and Belden, than I do between expensive audiophile cables such as Audioquest and Shunyata.
I prefer hippocratic cables. Audiophile cables are more suitable for tuning a system than allowing it to reveal itself.
I prefer hippocratic cables. Audiophile cables are more suitable for tuning a system than allowing it to reveal itself.
If a Belden/Mogami routinely exhibits a touch of edginess, and a fancy cable does not routinely exhibit that touch of edginess, how do you know the Belden/Mogami is "doing no harm"?
On a universal basis of course not, but from my direct experience and for my preference they are less editorializing. I only know what I've heard or reviewed over the years for the components and systems I have had ... that I can remember:
Alpha Core Goertz
Audioquest
Crystal Cable
FMS
Kimber
Kondo
LessLoss
Shunyata
Silver Audio
there are others but I'm not at the right computer to look them up.