Ron’s New System

[Ron Resnick]

I think it is a mistake to generalize.

With only a few data points so far I think the liveliness to make it like a live event depends totally on the tape. The Soular Energy tape is stunningly alive, and beats the vinyl version I have.

Come hear it for yourself!

 

[Johan K]

Oh no. Actually, she’s never had a problem with chewing anything she is not supposed to chew.

She knows special things go on in the listening room, but she knows she’s not allowed to walk into the listening room by herself.

View attachment 103745

So she’s very quiet and well-behaved when I carry her in and put her on the couch.

View attachment 103744

Sooo cute ?!!!

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Oh no. Actually, she’s never had a problem with chewing anything she is not supposed to chew.

She knows special things go on in the listening room, but she knows she’s not allowed to walk into the listening room by herself.

View attachment 103745

So she’s very quiet and well-behaved when I carry her in and put her on the couch.

View attachment 103744

Good doggy, woof!

 

[the sound of Tao]

Oh no. Actually, she’s never had a problem with chewing anything she is not supposed to chew.

She knows special things go on in the listening room, but she knows she’s not allowed to walk into the listening room by herself.

View attachment 103745

So she’s very quiet and well-behaved when I carry her in and put her on the couch.

View attachment 103744

I get that completely… with open baffles and external crossovers and exposed neotech silver hookup wire, speaker cables and interconnects Cleo and I have already had the good behaviour non-chew in the music room discussion…

Cleo’s expression kinda says it all…

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Ron tape rules but cost and getting music you love as in old music from years ago is hard and expensive
Vinyl once set up has massive great sounding albums to buy. if your vinyl is way off your tape you need to fix things to get them closer find great pressings.
tape is dense and power full. but to me great vinyl while it may seem to be a bit less dense seems to me to be much faster
Much more lively like a live event
ask mike L to weigh in on this.

hi Al,

i think we have more readily accessible tools, both hardware and media, to optimize vinyl than tape. tape is a dark art. if we have, say, 10 levels of vinyl playback goodness, the top 5 or 6 are all capable of doing wonder with great pressings. the media is the thing with vinyl and it clearly rises above the hardware. and as you say there are millions of really good Lps. so if we are into vinyl our odds of getting great sound is high. and these great pressings do have that open, delicate, refined sound.

most of us are capable of learning how to get much of what is in those grooves to our ears.

OTOH tape is mostly with vintage gear of various capabilities and condition. and few are even qualified to properly assess that hardware level of performance. and the media is limited, and many times of dubious provenance. so our tape experiences run the gamut. there are few clear references to check our progress. for myself, i use my vinyl to judge my tape. with my Studers, over time i've seen it go where about 2/3rds of my tapes were better than my vinyl version, to now maybe 1/3rd of my tapes are better than the vinyl version as my vinyl has improved. and as far as the sonic differences between tape and vinyl; my take in my system with my Studers with my solid state King Cello output electronics, is that while i do get greater tonal density and ambient info with tape, it's still quite lively and comparable to the vinyl. with better bass. when i hear some other tape repro electronics, i do hear a bit more of the more density at the expense of top end openness. i think most of these devices are not linear, but can sound very nice. then there are the variables of the tape sources. there is not much consistency.

and i think that the generalizations about tape have mostly to do with the variables involved. but i have much faith in what tape can be. and personally i'm working on boosting my tape performance right now......and have listened to more tape in the last 10 days than i had for a few years. i love my tapes and listening to tape.

so i'm with Ron enjoying reel to reel....really!

 

[dminches]

and personally i'm working on boosting my tape performance right now

What are you thinking of doing if you are inclined to share?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

What are you thinking of doing if you are inclined to share?

not quite yet....

 

[rando]

Well wishes all continues going forwards in acceptable fashion, Ron. Manyfold.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Well wishes all continues going forwards in acceptable fashion, Ron. Manyfold.

Thank you!

I am conflicted about with what frequency and granularity I should report updates. I don’t want to give our members update fatigue.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

keep it coming Ron, that's what this thread is. after 8 years of anticipation i think we all can respect your delight.

 

[Bruce B]

Not exactly. But IMO it says that tape collection should be reserved to connoisseurs and otherwise we should digitize our tape collection as soon as possible with the best digital quality available if we want to sleep in peace.

Hey....Mofi did it... so it MUST be good!

 

[Gregadd]

It's like a strip tease in revere.

 

[Holli82]

Thank you!

I am conflicted about with what frequency and granularity I should report updates. I don’t want to give our members update fatigue.

No fatigue here. I'm excited for you and your journey. Keep it coming!

 

[jespera]

I think it is a mistake to generalize.

With only a few data points so far I think the liveliness to make it like a live event depends totally on the tape. The Soular Energy tape is stunningly alive, and beats the vinyl version I have.

Come hear it for yourself!

Ok i’ll swing by some time

 

[microstrip]

hi Al,

i think we have more readily accessible tools, both hardware and media, to optimize vinyl than tape. tape is a dark art.

IMO tape is not a dark art. As tape was a professional system of recording and playback, it was deeply studied, instruments were developed and was well understood. I followed the Studer list, managed by Fred Thal for long years and the discussions on tape were extremely interesting and challenging. Again MHO, vinyl is a dark art, where any thing is possible, ruled mainly by listener preference. Surely you have a point when addressing media - we have almost no references on this aspect.

if we have, say, 10 levels of vinyl playback goodness, the top 5 or 6 are all capable of doing wonder with great pressings. the media is the thing with vinyl and it clearly rises above the hardware. and as you say there are millions of really good Lps. so if we are into vinyl our odds of getting great sound is high. and these great pressings do have that open, delicate, refined sound.


most of us are capable of learning how to get much of what is in those grooves to our ears.

OTOH tape is mostly with vintage gear of various capabilities and condition. and few are even qualified to properly assess that hardware level of performance. and the media is limited, and many times of dubious provenance. so our tape experiences run the gamut. there are few clear references to check our progress. for myself, i use my vinyl to judge my tape. with my Studers, over time i've seen it go where about 2/3rds of my tapes were better than my vinyl version, to now maybe 1/3rd of my tapes are better than the vinyl version as my vinyl has improved. and as far as the sonic differences between tape and vinyl; my take in my system with my Studers with my solid state King Cello output electronics, is that while i do get greater tonal density and ambient info with tape, it's still quite lively and comparable to the vinyl. with better bass. when i hear some other tape repro electronics, i do hear a bit more of the more density at the expense of top end openness. i think most of these devices are not linear, but can sound very nice. then there are the variables of the tape sources. there is not much consistency.

Considering that the LPs were sourced from tape, we can admit that if we have access to master tapes in excellent condition they will be able to sound better than vinyl.

and i think that the generalizations about tape have mostly to do with the variables involved. but i have much faith in what tape can be. and personally i'm working on boosting my tape performance right now......and have listened to more tape in the last 10 days than i had for a few years. i love my tapes and listening to tape.

Generalizations in a subjective hobby of permanent exception? How do you validate them?

so i'm with Ron enjoying reel to reel....really!

I enjoy my small tape collection a lot, my Studers are now packed for moving. But I will be back in tape in a few months.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Again MHO, vinyl is a dark art, where any thing is possible,

I agree with you micro , LP for me never again i think , a money pit and too much variables/ too much things that can go wrong .
I had all my machines profesionally restored in 2020 just as ron has done , from there on its easy sailing .
Demagnetize and clean the heads once in a while thats it

For the rest predictable great sound with good tapes.
Ron has it going for him with great tapehandling on the A 820

 

[Gregadd]

"Considering that the LPs were sourced from tape, we can admit that if we have access to master tapes in excellent condition they will be able to sound better than vinyl."
Microstrp
Just how would that work for the masses. Assuming there is only one master tape.

 

[microstrip]

"Considering that the LPs were sourced from tape, we can admit that if we have access to master tapes in excellent condition they will be able to sound better than vinyl."
Microstrp
Just how would that work for the masses. Assuming there is only one master tape.

Surely it is known since long that "master tape" is an ambiguous term - at best we usually have access to second generation copies of master tapes. We have threads on the subject and a thread on some infamous DSD master tapes.

Can an analog copy be better than the original? It depends on what is meant by better. In an etymological sense yes - it can be more effective or adequate. But not in absolute sense since the changes can't be reversible.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

IMO tape is not a dark art. As tape was a professional system of recording and playback, it was deeply studied, instruments were developed and was well understood. I followed the Studer list, managed by Fred Thal for long years and the discussions on tape were extremely interesting and challenging. Again MHO, vinyl is a dark art, where any thing is possible, ruled mainly by listener preference. Surely you have a point when addressing media - we have almost no references on this aspect.

my term 'dark art' reflects the difficult and mysterious process of entering the reel to reel world. the machines are all vintage with very few exceptions, and finding someone who can work on them is mostly word of mouth. access to tapes is very fuzzy to the 'tape' outsider.

OTOH with vinyl it's relatively all there for anyone to find. sure there is a bit of set-up voodoo to learn, but compared to tape it's easy-peasy.

Considering that the LPs were sourced from tape, we can admit that if we have access to master tapes in excellent condition they will be able to sound better than vinyl.

if the tape is how it was when the vinyl was mastered, and the deck is primo.

Generalizations in a subjective hobby of permanent exception? How do you validate them?

validation is not really our game. rationalization is.

I enjoy my small tape collection a lot,

i'm glad.

my Studers are now packed for moving.

mine too. packed for moving that is.

But I will be back in tape in a few months.

excited for you to move to your new place.

 

[Gregadd]

Surely it is known since long that "master tape" is an ambiguous term - at best we usually have access to second generation copies of master tapes. We have threads on the subject and a thread on some infamous DSD master tapes.

Can an analog copy be better than the original? It depends on what is meant by better. In an etymological sense yes - it can be more effective or adequate. But not in absolute sense since the changes can't be reversible.

If I may pick a few nits. Ambiguity of copy is exactly the point. How many copie can we make before the difference is audible? That's the problem of vinyl- degradation due to duplication. The copy itself would be ambiguous It's a rhetorical question.