I 100% agree. If I weren't at least a very junior member of the tape club mafia I would never have gotten into tape.
I agree!
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Ron’s New System
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
- Start date
I agree!
I guess I was reacting to your “exalted and mystical“ comment about vinyl playback. I’m surprised you held it in such high regard as you have been trying to convince me to get into tape for years now. And I recall with interest your enthusiastic reports from visits to Mike Lavigne and David Karmeli about their vinyl playback quality.
It sounds as though you enjoy tape even more. It will be interesting after things settle in a year or so how you end up dividing your time between the three formats. It is nice to read that you are listening to a lot of music these days. Always a good indication of system satisfaction.
your A820 has lots to offer if you go Nextgen or external imo
I have always revered vinyl as the most emotionally-engaging playback medium. Based on Mike Lavigne's work and based on my experiences so far I am finding that the best tape pushes emotional engagement and suspension of disbelief slightly beyond the best vinyl.
I feel like achieving that sonic level for me is what is much of what this hobby is all about -- even if it is for only a small number of titles.
I expect my listening to settle out to be something like 65% tape, 30% vinyl and 5% digital. When I want to listen to one of my favorite titles, and I have it on tape, I foresee myself reaching for the tape.
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Yes, I did. But this is not inconsistent with my findings about tape.
I think you will find in my visit report about my visit to Mike that I found his tape revelatory. That experience is what told me I have to explore tape.
David never pursued tape as far as I know.
I still think you should pursue tape, but by no means just any particular tape set-up. You are not averse to vintage components. I still think that you should tread the same ground I have tread and get an A820 or an A80 and realize the ultimate sonic level of this hobby, even if only for a small number of titles. This is my standing recommendation for anybody.
Hopefully, the current new production tape machines, such as the UHAs, equal or exceed the sound level of the big Studers. But I am not aware of any direct comparisons.
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what is great about this hobby is that musical satisfaction and contentment comes in all shapes and sizes, even among very, very serious minded audiophiles/music lovers.
right now, i'm sorting thru the 'every Friday morning' weekly (two weeks worth since i have been traveling) new streaming releases on Quboz on the Wadax. a couple of them vinyl versions were recommended to me by jazdoc. yet i started the CS Port and Esoteric T1 tt's earlier, to get them warmed up and settled in. but the digital is sounding so fine not yet gone to vinyl. then there are some tapes i want to listen to too, but not yet turned the tape gear on.
it's all just a hoot.
likely i'll be called to breakfast before i move on from digital, then some yard work, and watching the US Open Golf before i get back to listening.
i have my approach, Ron his, Peter his. we stay in our lanes mostly.
tape does rule at the end of the day. but all the stars do need to line up.
right now, i'm sorting thru the 'every Friday morning' weekly (two weeks worth since i have been traveling) new streaming releases on Quboz on the Wadax. a couple of them vinyl versions were recommended to me by jazdoc. yet i started the CS Port and Esoteric T1 tt's earlier, to get them warmed up and settled in. but the digital is sounding so fine not yet gone to vinyl. then there are some tapes i want to listen to too, but not yet turned the tape gear on.
it's all just a hoot.
likely i'll be called to breakfast before i move on from digital, then some yard work, and watching the US Open Golf before i get back to listening.
i have my approach, Ron his, Peter his. we stay in our lanes mostly.
tape does rule at the end of the day. but all the stars do need to line up.
The way I look at it is this (based on decent but not-extensive exposure to tape). Tape simply has a higher ceiling than vinyl. This is not to say that vinyl is always, on every title, inferior. And tape has drawbacks of its own. But to experience the pinnacle of this hobby, one needs to explore and fully experience tape. I agree with Ron - or at least I've had the same experience - that tape (almost?) always surpasses vinyl in spaciousness and effortlessness.
I will also add that my own previous experience with tape has shown that it doesn't take a big Studer machine to understand the experience and the delta between tape and vinyl. I'm sure the Studers are outstanding. But, recently, I spent some time listening to a much simpler TEAC side by side some top flight turntables. And by in large, it was a no-contest affair. Furthermore, when you listen to familiar content, you generally don't even need an in-the-moment side by side comparison to know what you're hearing comparatively.
I will also add that my own previous experience with tape has shown that it doesn't take a big Studer machine to understand the experience and the delta between tape and vinyl. I'm sure the Studers are outstanding. But, recently, I spent some time listening to a much simpler TEAC side by side some top flight turntables. And by in large, it was a no-contest affair. Furthermore, when you listen to familiar content, you generally don't even need an in-the-moment side by side comparison to know what you're hearing comparatively.
Before we go on romanticizing and exalting all the virtues of magnetic tape recording and playback, please educate yourself and learn about it limitations and shortcomings, both as a recording and playback medium:
Magnetic Recording: Analog Tape
I like the way magnetic tape sounds like most everyone else does, but I do not let its euphonic sound blind me from its reality.
Magnetic Recording: Analog Tape
I like the way magnetic tape sounds like most everyone else does, but I do not let its euphonic sound blind me from its reality.
tape is somewhat similar to vinyl in that the media is more significant than the hardware. it's kinda like that. tape provenance and transfer quality along with deck optimization are more challenging and less understood than turntables. with tape you can have very mundane output electronics, and transports and heads that are marginal, even when the cosmetics appear to be top notch. more tape decks can hold back tapes than turntables holding back vinyl.
and the differences between consumer decks, prosumer/broadcast decks, and master recorders, are significant on the transport side. condition varies wildly. most decks were not well cared for at some point. did they ever get fixed properly? all the newly produced decks i've seen fit into the prosumer/broadcast rank.
agree a nice consumer deck with a great tape can sound special. much cheaper way to get great sound than vinyl.
and at the tip top of the tape food chain, there is game changing performance. my hot-rodded ATR-102/MR 70's are a leap. the whole transport and signal path is optimized. my tapes have never sounded so good and it changed the hierarchy of my tape <-> vinyl rankings. raised the ceiling.
Aren't you a Debbie Downer! I am not interested in an objectivist discussion about this on my system thread.
This is a subjective hobby, and I am reporting that tape, when, as Mike says correctly, all the stars align, maximizes my emotional engagement and my suspension of disbelief.
Please feel free to start a new thread about your topic.
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Tape Machines are so beautiful , I really enjoy when I see them in my room. Tape playback is also an interesting experience for many audiophiles.
Apologies, I’m sorry to have rained on your parade. While I can’t close my eyes and ignore things that are not right, I will try to be more sensitive and respectful of others’ bliss, even when it is in ………
That's fun! As you say it is a hot recording.
I don't like the second track, but I do like the third track.
I have never heard any information or even gossip about a simultaneous tape being made at the time of that recording.
The fact that you can distribute vinyl in a mass scale does does not reduce its value and quality as a playback medium. No stereo can be exalted and mystical, listeners can be.
The three better know media - tape, vinyl and digital - have different sonic properties associated to its technical characteristics. We listen to them using recordings that depend on how the sound engineers used them - it would be great if you listen the exact recordings you have been listening and support your findings.
Owning the three types of media, I recognize that my admiration for tape conditioned my preferences in equipment - tape is a well known and objectively studied format, as it was used mainly by professionals in large companies. However in this hobby I have more doubts and questions than answers concerning subjective aspects.
"Carlos Dangerous"
"Carlos Dangerous"
I agree with your sentiments, Ron: Tape has been my favorite since my first deck, a quarter-track Revox in 1977. Even though it was somewhat "entry level," the quality and attributes of tape playback were head and shoulders above vinyl. The sound was so organic and "tactile" that the connection between the playback and listener was golden. Everyone friend that came over to listen felt and heard the same thing I had experienced.
As I said previously, I also like the euphoric sound of magnetic tape. I like it so much that I emulate the magnetic tape “sound” as part of my REMASTERING 2-buss chain.
The Stanford academic who wrote the article also alluded to the euphoric tape effects.
I would give Carlos some leeway given the amount of discussion those objective measurements at the beginning of your thread generated.
I understand that room measurements and a discussion about tape technology are different.
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