Ron, do you use unamplified vocals e.g. opera or miked ones, out of interest?
Ron's Speaker, Turntable, Power and Room Treatment Upgrades
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Or we can go on in this very interesting thread.
What determines "believability of the reproduction illusion"
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...-the-reproduction-illusion.20858/#post-397690It is worth, I think, contemplating just what characteristics of reproduced sound contribute to believability. For Timbre it is a clear recognition of the instrument or voice as distinct from similar instruments or voices even when they are plating the same note and same intensity. Taking it further, being able to distinguish different makes and/or ages of the same type of instrument. So one the first level a violin not sounding like a viola or a trumpet not like a Flugelhorn. Next level example, a Strad vs. Guarneri violins. Further (perhaps impossible through recordings) level examples, an early Strad from a late Strad. It is not that this has to be perfectly accurate because ALL systems and recordings will add Something of their own harmonics on top of the original sound wave harmonic envelope…whose pattern is the very core of Timbre. But it has to allow differentiation and not interfere significantly with the core pattern for an instrument.
When I was measuring Violins (my ex playing them), we had 4; a Strad, an Amati, a Guarneri del Gesu and an inexpensive modern one. They all had the same basic harmonic structure but the ratios of harmonics were different and perhaps in the fuzz some minor ones that were perhaps distinguishing. A system my shift these subtly…or grossly…the less it’s impacted in a perceptible way the more believable. I would think the better your system can differentiate between the same type of instrument of different makes/years the more believable it will be in Timbre whether or not it is totally accurate or not.
Dynamics I think is where even systems with great timbral believability fall short. They either have believable micro but not macro or macro and not micro or they have neither to any great degree.
When I was big into planars, and Stats in particular, I greatly valued timbral rightness, coherence and micro dynamics but even the big Stats were not what I wanted with macro dynamics. It took a long time to find a horn with good transparency and timbre while gaining macro dynamics, keeping micro and coherence while not being absolutely huge like my previous planars. Overall believability improved as a result, although I still love a good planar sound.
Of course, I still consider 3D imaging and soundstage vital to believability and planars can do this very well…here the horns have great focus but are perhaps less expansive in all dimensions…a slight trade off… in my room at least.
I will stipulate that I do not know Stevie Nicks personally at all, let alone well enough to use my memory of her unamplified voice talking to me in person to evaluate stereo systems using her recording of "Landslide."
An excellent live version on 12" vinyl. https://www.discogs.com/release/79029-Fleetwood-Mac-Landslide
Ron, you should try some Shakespeare. It sounds amazing through a high end system, especially on vinyl.
Hello Mike,
Thank you very much for the link on this!
Do you happen to know if this live version is a digital recording or an analog recording?
Thank you for this discussion of believability!
It is also interesting to read of your sonic priorities, and how you balance the sonic advantages and sonic disadvantages of different speaker topologies to arrive at a compromise which maximizes for you the sum of those priorities and maximizes your suspension of disbelief.
I checked my copy, no information regarding the recording. But as you heard, the recording sounds nice and 'natural'.
Thank you very much for checking!
I cannot tell anything about analog provenance or good recording quality when I am listening to YouTube over the Internet which is a totally digital process.
After five years of delay work on a repair in the room adjacent (combination home theater and audio equipment room below, and LP and tape storage, record cleaning desk, home office and miscellaneous storage in loft above) to my listening room has finally begun.
My new contractor for the final set of renovations to the house, Tony Cosko, of CalCoast Construction, is the same contractor who installed the electrical infrastructure in the listening room several years ago. He is making progress in the adjacent room on a daily basis.
When that work is done we can have the adjacent room painted, and then the adjacent room and the rear two-thirds of the listening room can be carpeted. Then I can begin to move audio components into the listening room.
I alerted Jason Lord of The Source AV in Torrance, California, who incredibly graciously has been storing my four giant Pendragon crates for five years. I'm a bit nervous about the speakers. I hope we do not find rust or spiderwebs around the towers when we finally open the crates. I hope the ribbon drivers themselves were carefully selected and tested from the last batch received by Gryphon from Bohlender-Graebener ("BG") before BG went out of business. I have always been a little bit nervous about the BG ribbon drivers. Flemming assured me that Gryphon has a lifetime supply of good BG drivers for Pendragons in the field.
Jim White is going to re-commence work on my Io. Brian Berdan is going to box up my Siegfried IIs and TL-7.5 Series III. David has incredibly graciously been storing my AS-2000 (first one to order, I believe, and last one to receive!) racks for five years as well.
I can finally see some dim light at the end of the tunnel. I am beginning to think I will have a big stereo playing music closer to the beginning of this decade than to the end of this decade.
I will not for the foreseeable future have the funds for a second tonearm/cartridge combination. David will be installing my ZYX UNIverse Premium on an SME 3012R.
The beginning of my long-delayed adventure with the new components of this system is now not that far away.
My new contractor for the final set of renovations to the house, Tony Cosko, of CalCoast Construction, is the same contractor who installed the electrical infrastructure in the listening room several years ago. He is making progress in the adjacent room on a daily basis.
When that work is done we can have the adjacent room painted, and then the adjacent room and the rear two-thirds of the listening room can be carpeted. Then I can begin to move audio components into the listening room.
I alerted Jason Lord of The Source AV in Torrance, California, who incredibly graciously has been storing my four giant Pendragon crates for five years. I'm a bit nervous about the speakers. I hope we do not find rust or spiderwebs around the towers when we finally open the crates. I hope the ribbon drivers themselves were carefully selected and tested from the last batch received by Gryphon from Bohlender-Graebener ("BG") before BG went out of business. I have always been a little bit nervous about the BG ribbon drivers. Flemming assured me that Gryphon has a lifetime supply of good BG drivers for Pendragons in the field.
Jim White is going to re-commence work on my Io. Brian Berdan is going to box up my Siegfried IIs and TL-7.5 Series III. David has incredibly graciously been storing my AS-2000 (first one to order, I believe, and last one to receive!) racks for five years as well.
I can finally see some dim light at the end of the tunnel. I am beginning to think I will have a big stereo playing music closer to the beginning of this decade than to the end of this decade.
I will not for the foreseeable future have the funds for a second tonearm/cartridge combination. David will be installing my ZYX UNIverse Premium on an SME 3012R.
The beginning of my long-delayed adventure with the new components of this system is now not that far away.
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wow Ron, got to be fun to write that post. very happy for you and Tinka to reach this point. excited to actually watch things happen in your room. 
I have been playing with the Trifield EM100 EMI tester in the equipment room and in the listening room. The outlets in the new electrical infrastructure system are pretty noisy according to this device. From what I can tell the longer is the length of the circuit from the subpanel to the outlet, the noisier that outlet is.
The main source of noise appears to be the LED lights in the ceiling. I asked the electrician associated with the old, bad contractor for the quietest lighting units available. Apparently he never investigated the matter. Lutron Maestro RF dimmers also seem to be pretty noisy.
While listening to the system I probably won't use the ceiling lights anyway. I will probably get incandescent up-lights that sit on the floor and illuminate the Pendragons like Stonehenge.
The main source of noise appears to be the LED lights in the ceiling. I asked the electrician associated with the old, bad contractor for the quietest lighting units available. Apparently he never investigated the matter. Lutron Maestro RF dimmers also seem to be pretty noisy.
While listening to the system I probably won't use the ceiling lights anyway. I will probably get incandescent up-lights that sit on the floor and illuminate the Pendragons like Stonehenge.
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wow Ron, got to be fun to write that post. very happy for you and Tinka to reach this point. excited to actually watch things happen in your room.
Thank you very kindly, Mike!
I had a single power supply Io for over 20 years. I just love that crazy thing -- soon with three boxes. And it's impossible not to adore Jim White.
I have seen each of the components in person over the course of time except for the turntable. I'm very excited to see David's AS-2000 turntable and the all-stainless steel racks someday. I can't wait to host David at the house for a week, and watch him set up the stainless steel monster!
I have seen each of the components in person over the course of time except for the turntable. I'm very excited to see David's AS-2000 turntable and the all-stainless steel racks someday. I can't wait to host David at the house for a week, and watch him set up the stainless steel monster!
Good luck Ron, as long as you do mean Stonehenge and not the Georgia Guidestones lol.
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