Good decision. It'll be nice to to have to worry about that and eliminate it from the mind's eye.
Ron's Speaker, Turntable, Power and Room Treatment Upgrades
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
- Start date
Ron, Bonnie stopped by during Christmas week to take some measurements, I’m waiting for the results. But while sitting and talking I interupted the conversation to notice just how awesome speech intelligibility was in my room, and we both commented just how “good” the room felt. It isn’t something I think a measurement would describe as it has to do with the subjective feeling in the space. I mentioned to her I had added blue jeans insulation and NoiseOut to the sidewalls that had been opened for the remodel even though they were not part of her original spec. She mentioned adding NoiseOut consistently improves the feel of a space, and many other acousticians she’d recommended it to have come back with the same impression. You might really want to consider adding NoiseOut before you hang the drywall, I’m sure your room will sound better for it.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
My floor is Noiseout. It’s a huge improvement. Bonnie told me it was equivalent to the floor being one large bass trap. She took measurements in a follow up visit to my house. What I like about Bonnie is that all of her sound treatments are totally hidden. My room is loaded and no one can see them. I understand what you mean about talking in the room and how legible it is
Bonnie is the real goods. She has a PhD in acoustics, mathematics and electrical engineering IIRC
Problem is she’s a one man show and getting to her in a timely fashion was often perplexing.
BTW Noiseout is her OEM
I also use her Lumitex and Paradise Foam as well as tuning tubes and Helmholtz resonators all done with a woman’s touch.
Bonnie is the real goods. She has a PhD in acoustics, mathematics and electrical engineering IIRC
Problem is she’s a one man show and getting to her in a timely fashion was often perplexing.
BTW Noiseout is her OEM
I also use her Lumitex and Paradise Foam as well as tuning tubes and Helmholtz resonators all done with a woman’s touch.
Thank you, Bob. Bonnie was at the house a few weeks ago, and I am awaiting her latest analysis.
I wasn’t completely sure so just measured a scrap piece, which came out at ~2.5mm, so that would be the NoiseOut 1. It was used on the ceiling and the walls of the recessed niches in my listening room. Beneath the carpeting we used 2 layer Vibrimat, which is a dense carpet pad bonded to a mass loaded vinyl like the NoiseOut.
Steve, did you use NoiseOut beneath your carpet or the Vibrimat? If Noiseout, did you also use a separate carpet pad?
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Hi Bob
I used NoiseOut not Vibramat which I sense might be a new product since she did my room. Having said that Bonnie's mantra wrt my room was "how to fool my speakers into thinking the room was twice as large as it is""I use a commercially grade carpet with a denser underpay. The Noise Out lies under the under pad and over the subfloor. She also used a special caulk in each corner tallow for expansion.
She's a very bright woman but as I said her availability is torn in a dozen different ways
Cartridge Update:
The Koetsu Coralstone output is specified as .3mV. The ZYX UNIverse Premium output is specified as .24mV.
But the Koetsu figure is at 5cm/s and the ZYX figure is at 3.54cm/s. When you adjust for this I think the Koetsu output is .20mV -- even less than the ZYX.
I am already concerned about asking too much from the Io with the ZYX. I am going to make an arbitrary decision here (I do not want to get involved with step-up transformers) that the Coralstone is too low in output for the Io to handle reasonably comfortably (i.e., without making too much noise).
So my top choice remains the ZYX UNIverse Premium. If for some reason the ZYX is too low in output for the Io then I would go with the Air Tight Opus. (The output for the Opus is specified at .45mV, but does anyone know if this spec is at 5cm/s or at 3.54cm/s?)
The Koetsu Coralstone output is specified as .3mV. The ZYX UNIverse Premium output is specified as .24mV.
But the Koetsu figure is at 5cm/s and the ZYX figure is at 3.54cm/s. When you adjust for this I think the Koetsu output is .20mV -- even less than the ZYX.
I am already concerned about asking too much from the Io with the ZYX. I am going to make an arbitrary decision here (I do not want to get involved with step-up transformers) that the Coralstone is too low in output for the Io to handle reasonably comfortably (i.e., without making too much noise).
So my top choice remains the ZYX UNIverse Premium. If for some reason the ZYX is too low in output for the Io then I would go with the Air Tight Opus. (The output for the Opus is specified at .45mV, but does anyone know if this spec is at 5cm/s or at 3.54cm/s?)
Ron, I think you have this slightly incorrect...the ZYX has a higher output than .24mv if you were to adjust it to the 5cm/s calculation. I do not believe it is the other way around, so the Koetsu has a 0.3mv output. (Which is pretty low, but I think the ZYX would compare at appx 0.338mv, if my calculation is correct)
The Air Tight Opus is measured at 5cm/s...and therefore has a healthy output...
Have you considered the new MSL Platinum Signature, it is supposedly a better cartridge than the Opus and has good output. Personally, I would want to hear the Opus and the MSL before plunking down the coin.
I am confused. Aren't we agreeing that the Koetsu output is lower than the ZYX output?
Absolutely about the MSL! I am waiting for Peter Ayer to compare comprehensively for us the Opus to the MSL Platinum Signature!
Absolutely about the MSL! I am waiting for Peter Ayer to compare comprehensively for us the Opus to the MSL Platinum Signature!
We are indeed, the ZYX has..again if my calculations are correct...0.038mv more output than the Koetsu Coralstone. However, I think that is marginal when it comes to the levels...and if your phono stage gets noisy at 0.3mv it will still be noisy at 0.338mv. I was under the impression that you thought the Koetsu had significantly less output than the ZYX if you were to adjust its calculation to the 3.54cm/s ....I don’t think that would be the case
Oh, yes, I agree it is a small difference in output. But I am concerned about even a 20% reduction in output.
I know the equation I had for many years with the Benz Ruby 2 output of .3mV at 3.54cm/s and the Prodigy sensitivity of 91dB and the VTL MB-750 triode output of 350 watts. This all worked very well for me and offered high SPL.
Now the Pendragons drop the sensitivity to 89dB; the ZYX drops the output to .24 mV; and the power output of the new amps (whichever they may be) will be about 150 watts or 200 watts. All together this adds up to a pretty significant difference in system output.
I just don't want to go any lower in output than the ZYX, which, at .24mV, is already pretty low to me.
I know the equation I had for many years with the Benz Ruby 2 output of .3mV at 3.54cm/s and the Prodigy sensitivity of 91dB and the VTL MB-750 triode output of 350 watts. This all worked very well for me and offered high SPL.
Now the Pendragons drop the sensitivity to 89dB; the ZYX drops the output to .24 mV; and the power output of the new amps (whichever they may be) will be about 150 watts or 200 watts. All together this adds up to a pretty significant difference in system output.
I just don't want to go any lower in output than the ZYX, which, at .24mV, is already pretty low to me.
Personally, I have pretty much discounted the XYZ line and the lower output Koetsu's for this reason. I am fairly certain that these cartridges will introduce noise into your system as well ( at least the one that you have described).
Simply a lot safer to only consider cartridges that have a minimum output...which in my case is 0.35mv or above. I suspect that number would be applicable to you as well....
This is the MAIN reason why I am still in the cartridge hunt. Right now, strongly leaning towards the Benz LPS MR, the Koetsu Urushi Blue or possibly a Lyra Etna ( which is a LOT more $$$).
Electric work: beautiful and extremely well done, even extra wire for expansion, brilliant! (What in-wall are you using and what outlets???)
Drywall Framing: Absolutely brilliant,...will have to remember this for my next room that will be custom-built!
Are you going with 2 layers of sheet rock (2 different thicknesses with buffer material or simply 'Quiet Rock' or whatever name it goes by)?
Thank You Ron! Very happy to see all the progress!!!
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Davey
In this case you are totally mistaken, The ZYX Premium in my system introduces zero noise into the system
I wish that I could, Ron. As it is, my AT Supreme and MSL Sig. Gold are all that I can swing. Of course I don't know this, but my suspicion is that the designer creates a cartridge for AirTight according to their specifications, and then he learns something in the process and then designs the cartridge that he really wants for his own MSL line. I read a review of how AirTight Opus 1 is better than the Supreme. The descriptions seemed very similar to what I heard when comparing the MSL Sig. Gold to my Supreme. I agree with DaveyF that I would certainly try to hear the Opus and Sig. Platinum before spending that kind of money. I think Tango has both cartridges so perhaps he will share his thoughts one day.
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