Ron's Speaker, Turntable, Power and Room Treatment Upgrades
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
- Start date
This is the best they have come up with so far –– filling the cracks with something and then sanding over it –– but I'm not happy with it.
i know this was covered some pages back now; but will this contracting and cracking stop after awhile? or go on forever?
purely aesthetic? right?
you could live with that process it until it reaches stasis, then get someone talented to touched it up. you need a specialist who is an artist to blend it. air brushing would work after it's filled.
and get moving on.....
Last edited:
Yes, the cracks are purely aesthetic. But this cracking is particularly aggravating because I paid huge premium for a time-consuming "biscuiting" procedure pursuant to which the walnut planks were doweled into each other edge to edge with round pucks.
The cracking was caused because the contractor did not leave the air conditioning on after the wood was installed when we had a rare hot spell. High temperature in the room drew the moisture out of the wood and caused the wood to contract.
If they had left the air conditioning on so the temperature had not risen above 75° this would not have happened.
If we ever move into the house I will keep the temperature between 65° and 72° naturally so contraction and expansion will not be a problem. Humidity is low all year around except for a few days of rain between January and April, typically.
The cracking was caused because the contractor did not leave the air conditioning on after the wood was installed when we had a rare hot spell. High temperature in the room drew the moisture out of the wood and caused the wood to contract.
If they had left the air conditioning on so the temperature had not risen above 75° this would not have happened.
If we ever move into the house I will keep the temperature between 65° and 72° naturally so contraction and expansion will not be a problem. Humidity is low all year around except for a few days of rain between January and April, typically.
David visited me recently and made several suggestions which I am adopting:
Instead of having drapes lined with Lumitex covering the rear half of the left side wall (covering the kitchen opening) and covering the rear third of the right side wall (covering the opening to the equipment room) and covering the entire rear wall (and separating the breakfast nook from the rear wall of the listening room) I have decided to have shades extend down from boxes installed in the header or ceiling directly above these openings. Retractable shades/screens will take up much less space than huge bunches of drapes and look a lot cleaner and more contemporary. The screen material itself can be the Guilford of Maine FR701 or some other thin, sound absorbing screen material.
I am going to use conventional carpet pad under the rear 2/3 of the floor of the room, rather than the extra absorbent SoundSense Vibramat and Lumitex layer. I can always make the room more sound absorbent, but I cannot make it less sound absorbent once the Vibramat and Lumitex and carpet are installed.
David suggested I not initially install floor to ceiling 16" round ASC Tube Traps in the front corners of the room. It would be great if I don't need them, because it would leave the room a lot cleaner and less cluttered looking.
David suggested that I not initially install any absorption or diffusion panels at the points of first reflections. If any treatment ultimately is needed there I likely would use extra-tall, free-standing SMT wood V-Wing diffusors, stained grey to match the walnut walls.
David's philosophy of less is more initially makes sense to me, because it makes more sense to start with an emptier room and then add products to solve specific perceived problems.
Thanks to David for visiting and for his wise advice!
Instead of having drapes lined with Lumitex covering the rear half of the left side wall (covering the kitchen opening) and covering the rear third of the right side wall (covering the opening to the equipment room) and covering the entire rear wall (and separating the breakfast nook from the rear wall of the listening room) I have decided to have shades extend down from boxes installed in the header or ceiling directly above these openings. Retractable shades/screens will take up much less space than huge bunches of drapes and look a lot cleaner and more contemporary. The screen material itself can be the Guilford of Maine FR701 or some other thin, sound absorbing screen material.
I am going to use conventional carpet pad under the rear 2/3 of the floor of the room, rather than the extra absorbent SoundSense Vibramat and Lumitex layer. I can always make the room more sound absorbent, but I cannot make it less sound absorbent once the Vibramat and Lumitex and carpet are installed.
David suggested I not initially install floor to ceiling 16" round ASC Tube Traps in the front corners of the room. It would be great if I don't need them, because it would leave the room a lot cleaner and less cluttered looking.
David suggested that I not initially install any absorption or diffusion panels at the points of first reflections. If any treatment ultimately is needed there I likely would use extra-tall, free-standing SMT wood V-Wing diffusors, stained grey to match the walnut walls.
David's philosophy of less is more initially makes sense to me, because it makes more sense to start with an emptier room and then add products to solve specific perceived problems.
Thanks to David for visiting and for his wise advice!
Last edited:
Ron, just my take, (having both curtains with Lumitex as well as Vibrimat & Lumitex in my room), given how much open space you have, and the walnut walls, you do not risk over damping with Vibrimat/Lumitex.
At a glance, my room appears that it might be over-damped. Walking in you know something is different as my upper floor living area is rather echo-y; lots of high and vaulted ceilings no treatments of any kind upstairs. But when you get to the music room there is a quiet calmness, peacefulness, and conversation becomes clear and intelligible. With music playing, there is no sense of lost liveliness or over damped feeling (my audio buddies here in Portland agree.) You appear to have plenty of open space—I wouldn’t throw out Bonnie’s recommendations about curtains and carpet pad completely. Remember it is the folds in the drapes and the lumitex that creates absorption & diffusion.
You’re welcome anytime to hear another SoundSense designed room here. I may not be playing in the leagues of Mike L. and Steve, but no doubt my room allows me to get the most of my system.
At a glance, my room appears that it might be over-damped. Walking in you know something is different as my upper floor living area is rather echo-y; lots of high and vaulted ceilings no treatments of any kind upstairs. But when you get to the music room there is a quiet calmness, peacefulness, and conversation becomes clear and intelligible. With music playing, there is no sense of lost liveliness or over damped feeling (my audio buddies here in Portland agree.) You appear to have plenty of open space—I wouldn’t throw out Bonnie’s recommendations about curtains and carpet pad completely. Remember it is the folds in the drapes and the lumitex that creates absorption & diffusion.
You’re welcome anytime to hear another SoundSense designed room here. I may not be playing in the leagues of Mike L. and Steve, but no doubt my room allows me to get the most of my system.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I agree although I use Bonnie's Noise Out under my carpet padding
She used Noise Out on my floor to serve as a giant bass trap
That walls are a major screw up. Biscuiting was a dumb idea unless there was one with maybe an inch between each. That just isn't how you do that.
It hurts to see how long and stalled the project is!
It hurts to see how long and stalled the project is!
Ron
The timber would have shrunk over time regardless - it is a humidity issue not temperature - if it has not been kiln dried then stored on site to adopt to the moisture level to suit the local climate ( which is what you do with a but jointed and on site sanded and finished floor and as we all know even then you can have problems)
It is pretty heroic to try seamless joins on a wall with a natural product like timber You probably could have done it if timber was hung on J clips or similar that allowed movement and had some movement joints in corners
Assuming the planks are either nail fixed or glued and really difficult to pull off and refix the only solution now is to control the appearance of the joints - either routing them and inserting a strip ( tedious ) or devising a fine cover strip
a real shame
cheers
phil
+1 on all the above. Seamless and hardwood is a difficult feat. Hope you get a fix soon Ron.
Ron I can’t tell what it’s going to sound like with or without all the elements but I do see the virtue in trying it out with your system in place and seeing how it sounds without. As David said you can always add.
From my perspective I find rooms that look more like living rooms and less like studios can be less isolating in a psychological way. The more it looks like a living space for me the better and the intention and focus of the function of the room is something only you can determine because it should be what you feel is best.
Moderation in general is a good aim. If you can get away without it all and be really happy that strikes me as a good outcome.
If in review to make it sound and look the way you want it requires redressing any element then that is something you can choose in the light of your first experiences in the room.
Last edited:
Room acoustic is an evolution kind of thing. Acousticians take "their best guess" and then we evolve from their. The room owner needs to hear himself what it really sound like in his room to be over dampened and overly lively, how do they differ. The more built-in from the start the more tedious to make change because they are often more permanent in initial design. It is best to have a more flexible initial design, put the system in, live with it for a while and evolve. The advise to not fully suit up the room from the start is a wise one.
Kind regards,
Tang
Kind regards,
Tang
They could have been joined better and they might have survived without cracking. The major issue is obviously that if they aren’t “floating”, even joined with overlap, then you would be more likely to get cracks.
Veneer might allow some interesting attributes were it cut like planks.
Or if you find you need some beautiful diffusion when exploring the sound of your finished room then adaptive re-use of the current hardwood would make sense... it could clearly be done and look better than above though where the pic is just indicative.unlikely - the timber would split if the joint was stronger than the timber - you cant stop it shrinking
Depends a bit on moisture, sealing, and wood species/cut are factors, but mostly them not being free to pull together is a problem. These shrunk so much that it was unusual for kiln dried wood IME. And I stand by the biscuits being a bad idea.
Hardwood floor finishers use the sawdust from the floor they are laying, mixed with glue to fill joints and get the right color. Hopefully your wood guys are using that technique.
And while I love black walnut, I must admit I was a little skeptical of your choice for the walls if the goal was acoustics. Particularly with your open floorplan and high ceilings. In my own home I’d love to have some absorption on the upper walls where the room has high ceilings. Hardwood floors, granite surfaces, lots of glass—when we throw my wife’s office Christmas party and put 50+ people in the house it gets incredibly loud. Something to reduce the echos would be great. Personally, I am pretty fond of the fabric + track system. You can hid absorptive layer behind the fabric, and fabric choices mean you can design to suit traditional, transitional, or contemporary. And, like with paint, you can make a change pretty easily. What goes behind the fabric is up to you and your acoustician. Besides the blue jeans insulation and noise-out behind the sheetrock, in my case behind the fabric are essentially custom BAD panels. I think in my room that keeps the sound from being over-damped.
I hope you get it sorted Ron, you deserve to be in your home, enjoying music and the view.
And while I love black walnut, I must admit I was a little skeptical of your choice for the walls if the goal was acoustics. Particularly with your open floorplan and high ceilings. In my own home I’d love to have some absorption on the upper walls where the room has high ceilings. Hardwood floors, granite surfaces, lots of glass—when we throw my wife’s office Christmas party and put 50+ people in the house it gets incredibly loud. Something to reduce the echos would be great. Personally, I am pretty fond of the fabric + track system. You can hid absorptive layer behind the fabric, and fabric choices mean you can design to suit traditional, transitional, or contemporary. And, like with paint, you can make a change pretty easily. What goes behind the fabric is up to you and your acoustician. Besides the blue jeans insulation and noise-out behind the sheetrock, in my case behind the fabric are essentially custom BAD panels. I think in my room that keeps the sound from being over-damped.
I hope you get it sorted Ron, you deserve to be in your home, enjoying music and the view.
I appreciate that Bob, very much, thank you. I am truly very happy for you that you have found acoustic solutions and treatments that you love!
I used to feel exactly the same way. In Manhattan, New York, in a compact three bedroom apartment, I purposed an entire guest bedroom as a dedicated listening room. The room was 16' long by 10' wide by 9' high. I had wall-to-wall carpet, and absorption behind my head and ASC Tube Traps in the corners and ASC Tower Slims flanking the speakers. The room was quite quiet, and maybe a little bit over-damped, but I liked it.
But then I visited MikeL. MikeL's room taught me the importance of maintaining energy and liveness, and of using acoustic treatment in a surgical, rather than in a wholesale, manner. With this room I am determined not to go as nearly damped/absorbent as I did in my apartment in Manhattan.
I used to feel exactly the same way. In Manhattan, New York, in a compact three bedroom apartment, I purposed an entire guest bedroom as a dedicated listening room. The room was 16' long by 10' wide by 9' high. I had wall-to-wall carpet, and absorption behind my head and ASC Tube Traps in the corners and ASC Tower Slims flanking the speakers. The room was quite quiet, and maybe a little bit over-damped, but I liked it.
But then I visited MikeL. MikeL's room taught me the importance of maintaining energy and liveness, and of using acoustic treatment in a surgical, rather than in a wholesale, manner. With this room I am determined not to go as nearly damped/absorbent as I did in my apartment in Manhattan.
Last edited:
Similar threads
