Room Correction for 2 Channel?
- Thread starter audioguy
- Start date
Interesting and very intriguing. I have a feeling the Dirac and Trinnov are both closely following these threads and try to recruit folks in their camp early, in anticipation of broad(er) market acceptance of high end room correction in the near future.
One question though. How will a PC based system get you 2.2 channels of audio digitally out of your PC? For audiophile quality MCH you would either need 2 Lynx cards in your PC and the software to map 2.2 audio after Dirac processing to those cards, or alternatively 2 USB ports carrying 2 channels each. and two high grade stereo USB DACs downstream.
Also, it was my understanding you are looking for a multi channel system. How will this PC based approach give you multi channel?
Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
I'm apparently behind the curve on this stuff. Did not know this existed. How do you get MCH HDMI sources (SACD, BR) into a PC? You would need to decode this to high rez LPCM, and then there are digital output bandwith licencing restrictions.
Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
There are several threads over at Computer Audiophile that tell/show you how to rip the information off of an SACD or BR. Then you can take the MCH FLAC files and play them out of a Lynx card... or whatever.
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Thankfully I'm less behind the curve than I thought. I am aware of the hackers guide to SACD ripping, but this will obviously never become a mainstream. I also think having to rip your BR's coming in from Netflix before being able to play them for one time viewing is never going to be mainstream, so it looks like for the foreseeable future computer based MCH high resolution audio/video will be a gimmick for the truly committed. Once high rez MCH movie/audio streaming becomes mainstream this may have a bright future though.
Sorry! Audioguy's real name is Chuck?
* There is some stuff that I am very interested to find out from Chuck, regarding Room Correction.
...Including DiracLive.
** I'll be keeping a meticulous eye open here on this particular thread ... :b
* There is some stuff that I am very interested to find out from Chuck, regarding Room Correction.
...Including DiracLive.
** I'll be keeping a meticulous eye open here on this particular thread ... :b
Come to think of it, running Dirac live on a PC/music server with the 6 channel Lynx card would allow you to do fully discrete 2.2, and save you a few bucks over the Trinnov 4 channel unit, if all you need is 2.2. However, by the time you got your server, 6 channel card, Dirac license (and possibly outboard Dac), the difference in cost may be small. Also, this setup is probably not ready for primetime. Very interesting though.
I am having to wait until next week to begin the software based DiracLive project as I just got home from the hospital from hernia surgery (don't cough 
). Had the left side done about 10 years ago, so this should do it.
There are some Lynx cards that will provide the output I need but since I already have a nice D2A for my mains using the TacT, I can buy something like a used Benchmark DAC for the subs. Assuming this system is at least as good as the TacT, this is a no brainer. And Lynx also has an A2D and D2A card with 8 channels (originally recommended by Bruce). The pieces are falling into place!!
If you think about the progression of digital room correction, the first product was the SigTech initially developed in the late 80's early 90's. PC power was limited, so each SigTech unit was loaded with very expensive Motorola DSP chips. TacT came along a bit later, with more powerful PC's and the PC's do all of the serious number crunching, load the TacT with the filters and the inside of a TacT has a lot of empty space. Now we have PCs that have the processing power of what mainframes could do just a few years ago (and the ability of having huge amounts of fairly inexpensive memory). So we only need software. I am aware of a number of software based room correction packages that are PC based, but I had interest in DiracLive due to it’s outstanding reputation. Obviously much of the costs of the TacT, the 2.2 channel version of the Trinnov and whatever else is out there is the hardware. A software based version makes economic sense as well. I think Acourate sells for about 1/10th the amount of a 2.2 TacT or 2.2 Trinnov ($500)
I have yet to hear one of these software based solutions but I have no doubt that ultimately, that will be the direction to go. I did find a guy who had switched from a 2.2 TacT to Acourate and according to him, it was both functionally and sonically superior to his TacT
For HT, I am not displeased with my Integra particularly if I can have the front two channels driven with high quality DACs and DiracLive, and then have the surrounds driven by the Integra DACs (about which Kal has said they are really pretty good). Would I ideally like all channels driven the same way? Yes, but I am willing to wait until someone develops a 7.1 channel PC based solution. My guess is that Trinnov, DiracLive, TacT could all do that of they so chose.
). Had the left side done about 10 years ago, so this should do it.There are some Lynx cards that will provide the output I need but since I already have a nice D2A for my mains using the TacT, I can buy something like a used Benchmark DAC for the subs. Assuming this system is at least as good as the TacT, this is a no brainer. And Lynx also has an A2D and D2A card with 8 channels (originally recommended by Bruce). The pieces are falling into place!!
If you think about the progression of digital room correction, the first product was the SigTech initially developed in the late 80's early 90's. PC power was limited, so each SigTech unit was loaded with very expensive Motorola DSP chips. TacT came along a bit later, with more powerful PC's and the PC's do all of the serious number crunching, load the TacT with the filters and the inside of a TacT has a lot of empty space. Now we have PCs that have the processing power of what mainframes could do just a few years ago (and the ability of having huge amounts of fairly inexpensive memory). So we only need software. I am aware of a number of software based room correction packages that are PC based, but I had interest in DiracLive due to it’s outstanding reputation. Obviously much of the costs of the TacT, the 2.2 channel version of the Trinnov and whatever else is out there is the hardware. A software based version makes economic sense as well. I think Acourate sells for about 1/10th the amount of a 2.2 TacT or 2.2 Trinnov ($500)
I have yet to hear one of these software based solutions but I have no doubt that ultimately, that will be the direction to go. I did find a guy who had switched from a 2.2 TacT to Acourate and according to him, it was both functionally and sonically superior to his TacT
For HT, I am not displeased with my Integra particularly if I can have the front two channels driven with high quality DACs and DiracLive, and then have the surrounds driven by the Integra DACs (about which Kal has said they are really pretty good). Would I ideally like all channels driven the same way? Yes, but I am willing to wait until someone develops a 7.1 channel PC based solution. My guess is that Trinnov, DiracLive, TacT could all do that of they so chose.
Interesting. I'm hoping someone will come up with an all-in-one solution as well -- surround, FIR crossover, room/speaker correction. Though the converters would start to mount up (I count 33 channels for 11.2 with 3-way speakers . . . ).
As with a lot of the "high end" you can spend as much as you want. I would pose the question to Bruce who has some experience with some of these Lynx cards, but certainly for what I'm searching for and from what I have heard from some others, they are outstanding. If I'm looking for DACS of the quality of the $77,000 dCS stack, then you are right, this can get really stupid.
I don't want to start a urinating contest ---- But my position is for surround processing , that the implementation of the processing algorithms and room correction capabilities will play a much larger role in the whole envelopment experience than the difference between a reasonably priced surround processor and a mega-expensive surround processor. (AND the experience of the user/installer).
Case in point: My old Casablance SSP with no room correction, while an excellent SSP and great hardware, DACs, etc, sounds nowhere near as good as my Integra with Audyssey X32 in my room. And I had them at the same time to compare them. I know there are some Theta fans who are probably having massive chest pains as they read this, but IN MY ROOM AND IN MY OPINION (and the opinion of other ears that I trust) it was not close. I am not an anti-Theta hardware guy, but trying (maybe unsuccessfully) to make the point that room correction, the implementation of same, and the installation of it in particular room, are more important than the hardware on which it runs (within reason). My guess will be that the Theta with DiracLive will be spectacular and has the ability to be far superior to my Integra (at 6 times the price).
(I just went back and read this and I pretty sure my anesthesia drugs and pain killers have not worn off !!
Hope they act a while longer when you just declared an Integra (Hope it is not the AVR!) better sounding that an High End product ! Oh The Heresy!
I have no doubt that you're right. The question, as always, is where exactly do you draw the line . . .
Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Now THAT, I am an expert in!!
(just finished 3 back to back cases today and finally getting lunch!)
Hope they act a while longer when you just declared an Integra (Hope it is not the AVR!) better sounding that an High End product ! Oh The Heresy!
It was the SSP only. And I know it is heresy on WBF at least. I don't believe in high end cables and power cords either. BUT I do prefer the best analog against the best digital even though I just sold my TT, arm, cartridge, record cleaning machine, 1000 + LP's, VPI SDS and ARC phono stage. I'm pretty sure that one act alone would qualify me as legally insane! I gave brief thought to digitizing all of the albums but refused to invest the time to do so. I'm actually replacing some of that equipment with an Infared Sauna !! (but it does have a built in CD player !)
I luv everything that I am reading here so far.
Thank you to all the participants, and to Chuck (audioguy). :b
...And best wishes on your health side.
Thank you to all the participants, and to Chuck (audioguy). :b
...And best wishes on your health side.
Chuck, from what you are telling me it seems like you have never heard a truly SOTA SSP in your system. Although expensive at the time, A CBII with older DAC cards is not even close to the level of a modern SSPs. I have the exact opposite position and believe superior hardware will trump whatever room correction can do in a half decent room any day, but I readily admit this position is equally unsubstantiated by experience and A/B comparisons as yours. I will say though that Kal's review of the Meridan 861v6 is more supportive of my "position", than yours, because he concluded the 861v6 is a phenomenal SSP in its own right, and room correction was "icing on the cake". He is also reviewing the new Bryston which has no EQ / room correction. I would be shocked if he concluded you might as well get a $2,000 SSP with EQ/Room Correction, but we'll find out.
Chuck,
Why don't you arrange to borrow one of the top Integra SSPs and see how it can perform in your room? That would give you a "modern" baseline for comparison and likely allow you to hear just what any more sophisticated surround processing and EQ, etc. can provide.
Lee
Why don't you arrange to borrow one of the top Integra SSPs and see how it can perform in your room? That would give you a "modern" baseline for comparison and likely allow you to hear just what any more sophisticated surround processing and EQ, etc. can provide.
Lee
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