Seattle report: Mike's System, Bruce B, Jazdoc, EA MM7, NVS, Darts, etc
- Thread starter bonzo75
- Start date
yes, tweeter to tweeter is 109".
listening position is actual ear to tweeter, both sides (with laser measuring device). you need to add the head width to know the actual geometry. a single point would be a slightly longer distance.
and I have multiple sighting points to reference my ears when I change chairs.
I can move my head around and not lose anything. it's not a tiny little sweet spot.
no. they are slightly behind the plane of the front of the speakers, so no direct reflections.
however...I have covered the amps with foam and then listened....and heard nothing different.
Last edited:
What a fantastic report, Kedar!
How are you reconciling the amazing sound you heard from the combination of Mike's room and MM7s with your general preference for Apogees?
Mike, I consider Kedar a tough customer so I think his amazement at what your system and room can do is a significant tribute to your dedication, passion and persistence in achieving the absolute sound.
How are you reconciling the amazing sound you heard from the combination of Mike's room and MM7s with your general preference for Apogees?
Mike, I consider Kedar a tough customer so I think his amazement at what your system and room can do is a significant tribute to your dedication, passion and persistence in achieving the absolute sound.
Mike’s set up was better. The only thing is I cannot dissociate it from the room yet.
As you know, the Apogee Grands we both heard, had a big room, and were based on literally free cables, and electronics that would collectively cost less than one of Mike’s cables.
That said, I don’t think the Apogees would have been able to produce what Mike’s system did with even that level of gear, though at the same time, what would sound better in more “average” room conditions? The MM3 can fit a smaller room than the Full Range (both have the same street price), so they can fit a Duetta room as well, and should be better.
I think how good they are can be best verified by those in the US visiting someone like edorr, who has Mike’s ex-MM3s in a small room.
I would still give the midbass edge to the Apogees, but it does not take anything away from the EAs.
And well, they are just easy to place.
Excellent blog, Bonzo75. I really enjoyed reading it, and it gives a new and different perspective of Mike's system. It is clear that the dedication and effort Mike has given to his interest in audio, but really to his love of music, is of an exceptionally high level. Having the means is not enough. It is the endless curiosity and willingness to learn and improve which have made the biggest difference, it seems to me. I particularly appreciate the comments about the two cartridges and their different sounds.
As I read those comments, and your wavering preference for each with the different recordings, I made me think about something I have found when comparing my cartridges, namely VTA. I don't think that Mike adjusts VTA for different LPs. Given that, do you suppose that one cartridge MIGHT have sounded slightly better than the other on a given LP simply because the VTA for that stylus cut and particular LP cutting angle was a better match? I have no idea, and perhaps that is a discussion topic for another thread.
You also answered a question about which I have been curious. It is now quite obvious why you chose your moniker. Did anyone else catch that?
As I read those comments, and your wavering preference for each with the different recordings, I made me think about something I have found when comparing my cartridges, namely VTA. I don't think that Mike adjusts VTA for different LPs. Given that, do you suppose that one cartridge MIGHT have sounded slightly better than the other on a given LP simply because the VTA for that stylus cut and particular LP cutting angle was a better match? I have no idea, and perhaps that is a discussion topic for another thread.
You also answered a question about which I have been curious. It is now quite obvious why you chose your moniker. Did anyone else catch that?
yes; a classical lover who's moniker not only refers to an ultimate rocker, but the year he was most on top of his game.
after I played 'In My Time Of Dying' this was explained to me with much passion.
how can you argue with this musical perspective?
the Durand Telos (both standard and Sapphire) is not 'adjust VTA for every cut' friendly. but in that trade-off you get over-the-top solidity.
my guess (and experience) is that the trade-off is not close as to which side wins....which is why it's done that way.
YMMV, just my 2 cents, and all that stuff. I know we sometimes view some issues like religion.
Owning the SME, I know all about difficulty in adjusting VTA and the importance of rigidity/solidity. SME takes the same position on azimuth. And I agree with the adjustability versus solidity trade-off. It is hard or impossible to have both. I favor solidity, and am glad that there is some adjustability, even if difficult. But I also appreciate the improvements that slight VTA differences can make, so I adjust accordingly. It is a pain.
I have found that a religious experience, or something very close (religion in a barn?), can sometimes be had when everything, soundwise, is optimized. That's just being puckish, but I know what you mean. And, from reports, you have achieved it.
Hi bonzo!
Just a quick heads up, as I see you've just passed through San Diego... We have the MM3 (w/ EXACT modules) here in the store, with a choice of amps (tube or SS) as well as digital/analog. Next time you're in town, you're more than welcome to stop by!
I do know the MM3s well, and they'll work with just about any room. I've friends back in Brazil with a pair of MM2s sitting in what looks like a closet, and it still sounds lovely, once they got them properly positioned. So, more important is 1) positioning, 2) setup of the bass adjustments and 3) partnering components.
Of course, once those three points are nailed, you can still work on the room to get that last bit of performance
Hope next time you're in town you can stop by!
cheers,
alex
Great report Ked. I really enjoyed reading it, I think you (and now us!) are having a great time, but you being carried away of your primary mission - build a system for yourself!
IMHO, in this hobby it is not possible to isolate components when we are addressing the ultimate performance of a system such as Mike's one. Just see that he managed to get the lifelike music of tubes in his solid state system just by a small change in speaker and listener positioning and a few ground straps! Most of the time you will be mostly listening to the expertise of the person who set the system. It is like live music - great musicians rehearse hundreds of hours to offer us a great recital!
I have the feeling that my recent DCS acquisition destroyed the equilibrium that I had got for the last few years in my system. Some aspects improved significantly, but it is still missing the balance and exquisite fine tuning that I had with previous system. Unfortunately the rebuild of the room ceiling will be postponing any final decisions and serious fine tuning for a couple of months.
bonzo75 said:
IMHO, in this hobby it is not possible to isolate components when we are addressing the ultimate performance of a system such as Mike's one. Just see that he managed to get the lifelike music of tubes in his solid state system just by a small change in speaker and listener positioning and a few ground straps! Most of the time you will be mostly listening to the expertise of the person who set the system. It is like live music - great musicians rehearse hundreds of hours to offer us a great recital!
I have the feeling that my recent DCS acquisition destroyed the equilibrium that I had got for the last few years in my system. Some aspects improved significantly, but it is still missing the balance and exquisite fine tuning that I had with previous system. Unfortunately the rebuild of the room ceiling will be postponing any final decisions and serious fine tuning for a couple of months.
? http://zero-distortion.org/mike-lavignepuget-studiosjazdoc-evolution-acoustic-mm7/
Liberating read, thank you, I very much needed that. Deserves all the peace and respect to this all music adventurer, the high flying Mike.
Liberating read, thank you, I very much needed that. Deserves all the peace and respect to this all music adventurer, the high flying Mike.
Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
thanks Mike, Steve and Bob. I appreciate the kind words.
it's funny what can happen when you overcome your sensory comfort zones. the significant thing I did to allow ultra near field was back a year ago when I treated my walls for reflections. those pesky reflections would have driven me away from close up listening before. but once those were gone all things were possible. I just had to follow my ears, and then got some help in the last little but important step.
sitting here multitasking the pull of the music (redbook) is so strong and compelling.
true that.....about grounding that is. crossing that boundary from very good to over-the-top suspension of disbelief is a delicate thing and my Tripoint--Entreq treatments get significant credit for that sexy nuance and musical delicacy that is hard to define.
how does one get solid state to sound like tubes?
you have to start out with the most sexy solid state like the dart 458's with their magical 1st watt, then have the ultra easy load MM7's and all that mid bass cone surface for such linearity in that all important frequency range.....reflective glare under control.....uber grounding.....NCF plugs and outlets.....Equi=tech.....etc, etc...
and you have it.
grounding is part of the picture, and when you go for all the gusto leave no stone unturned.
everything matters.
but it can be done.
