SET amp owners thread

morricab

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My friend had Viva new Autora with Wilson Alexandria that are 94 db in a small
Not big room,when tried my CH A1 mono
Sold immediately Viva and bought my A1 mono and i bought M1 mono
Really no
Comparison but also at low level
Then with speaker AN Sogon,for exemple,could be viva sound better than Ch,but in that case I will use Kondo G70I and Souga
Well, I guess the difference between us is that I don't think the CH amps sound particularly good and I am and probably always will be puzzled by those moving from really good SETs to that kind of amplification. The tonality of CH is just not there as it should be for real instruments. I have also heard many setups with CH that sounded dynamically constrained..the grip seems too tight.

I would not run Alexandria with SET despite the on paper sensitivity. It might work pretty well with a couple of SETs I know but they are atypical in how good they drive 'SET unfriendly" speakers.

The only Wilson speaker that I have heard with SET that really worked well was the original X1 Grand SLAMM, which was a true 95db and an easy load as well. I had very good experience with KR Audio amplifiers and the MKI and MKIII versions of the X1. All derivatives that came later got progressively harder to drive.

I agree that Kondo G70 and Souga would likely sound better but you have to consider the huge cost difference between Auroras and Kondo...not really a fair comparison.

That said, Viva Aurora would not be my first choice for SET. At least within that budget range (not Souga range at 50K+) I would buy what I sell, Aries Cerat, or alternatively Amplifon, NAT, KR Audio, Ayon or perhaps a level 3/4 Audio Note UK. AC, Amplifon and NAT in particular have serious punch for conventional speakers that Kondo doesn't really have (but Kondo might be superior for really sensitive speakers).
 
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gian60

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Yes,you are right,price of Kondo is high but Viva Aurora cost in italy price list 50.000 euro and Souga 56.000 euro.

I dont like CH when i listen in some shop or in munich,but i can guarantee in my home and my friend home sound very very well.

Other friend near me has X1 Grand Slamm with Riviera mono amp,50 watt and sound well and better than Viva than we tried.
I know well also Ayon,Nat and KR and are very very good,i prefer Ayon and Nat than Aurora.

Aries Cerat never listen well,i never liked in munich,especially this year,sound dark,full midbass,and not natural,and i dont liked in Italy show,but sure are very good product and in a selected system at home will sound wonderful,i think
 

godofwealth

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I ended up buying a pair of Triode Labs 45M monoblocks. These use one 45 tube per channel to produce 1.5-2W. Should be sufficient for my La Scalas. What an interesting change in direction for me personally. A few years ago, I was using a 200 pound Krell 750CX “boat anchor” amplifier that could easily produce about 900 watts into 8 ohms and keep doubling that into lower impedances. It was solid state but sounded like an antique room heater at times as the heat sinks clanged and banged as the amplifier warmed up. But for driving my highly inefficient Magnepans, it was the best amp to wake those monoliths from their slumber. The Klipsches are probably at least 30 dB more efficient. No need for boat anchor amplifiers.

82643828-562F-41F9-AB60-0F397281D16A.jpeg
 

morricab

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Yes,you are right,price of Kondo is high but Viva Aurora cost in italy price list 50.000 euro and Souga 56.000 euro.

I dont like CH when i listen in some shop or in munich,but i can guarantee in my home and my friend home sound very very well.

Other friend near me has X1 Grand Slamm with Riviera mono amp,50 watt and sound well and better than Viva than we tried.
I know well also Ayon,Nat and KR and are very very good,i prefer Ayon and Nat than Aurora.

Aries Cerat never listen well,i never liked in munich,especially this year,sound dark,full midbass,and not natural,and i dont liked in Italy show,but sure are very good product and in a selected system at home will sound wonderful,i think
Well, we will have to disagree with the AC setup this year. It was, IMO, the most realistic sound at the show...not dark at all but yes occasionally a bit bass heavy.
 

morricab

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Apr 25, 2014
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Yes,you are right,price of Kondo is high but Viva Aurora cost in italy price list 50.000 euro and Souga 56.000 euro.

I dont like CH when i listen in some shop or in munich,but i can guarantee in my home and my friend home sound very very well.

Other friend near me has X1 Grand Slamm with Riviera mono amp,50 watt and sound well and better than Viva than we tried.
I know well also Ayon,Nat and KR and are very very good,i prefer Ayon and Nat than Aurora.

Aries Cerat never listen well,i never liked in munich,especially this year,sound dark,full midbass,and not natural,and i dont liked in Italy show,but sure are very good product and in a selected system at home will sound wonderful,i think
I have owned Ayon (Three different amps and reviewed an amp and preamp), KR Audio, NAT etc. and the best so far are Aries Creat and Amplifon. Amplifon is from Poland and not at all well known but the sound is truly excellent... Better than NAT, KR and Ayon (KR on right speakers is close).
 

charles1dad

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I ended up buying a pair of Triode Labs 45M monoblocks. These use one 45 tube per channel to produce 1.5-2W. Should be sufficient for my La Scalas. What an interesting change in direction for me personally. A few years ago, I was using a 200 pound Krell 750CX “boat anchor” amplifier that could easily produce about 900 watts into 8 ohms and keep doubling that into lower impedances. It was solid state but sounded like an antique room heater at times as the heat sinks clanged and banged as the amplifier warmed up. But for driving my highly inefficient Magnepans, it was the best amp to wake those monoliths from their slumber. The Klipsches are probably at least 30 dB more efficient. No need for boat anchor amplifiers.

View attachment 98674
This is a fascinating change of direction. 900 watt solid state /Planars to 2 watt SET /Horns combo. Near perfect diametrically opposed approaches.

Listening to music that you enjoy and are very familiar with, which pairing is more sonically convincing, fulfilling and involving?
Charles
 

cal3713

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I ended up buying a pair of Triode Labs 45M monoblocks. These use one 45 tube per channel to produce 1.5-2W. Should be sufficient for my La Scalas. What an interesting change in direction for me personally. A few years ago, I was using a 200 pound Krell 750CX “boat anchor” amplifier that could easily produce about 900 watts into 8 ohms and keep doubling that into lower impedances. It was solid state but sounded like an antique room heater at times as the heat sinks clanged and banged as the amplifier warmed up. But for driving my highly inefficient Magnepans, it was the best amp to wake those monoliths from their slumber. The Klipsches are probably at least 30 dB more efficient. No need for boat anchor amplifiers.

View attachment 98674
Would love to hear more about your listening impressions. I love the look of the new amps.
 

charles1dad

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@cal3713
I am also hoping he is willing to share some insight. Such a drastic change in an audio system direction. What triggered this and how is it working out?
Charles
 
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godofwealth

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This is a fascinating change of direction. 900 watt solid state /Planars to 2 watt SET /Horns combo. Near perfect diametrically opposed approaches.

Listening to music that you enjoy and are very familiar with, which pairing is more sonically convincing, fulfilling and involving?
Charles
I was very wary of getting a pair of Klipsch La Scalas, given the almost uniformly negative reviews they receive in places like Stereophile or TAS. However, these rags are driven by advertising dollars and Klipsch has been around longer than any audiophile rag and will likely outlast all the current ones. La Scalas have been produced for over 60 years. They are so well designed that little needs to be changed. The only speaker I would consider owning in addition now are the even larger Klipschorns, which need corners.

I found to my surprise that the La Scalas AL5 version sounded really nice, not just with a Cary 300B SET monoblock amp, but also with a Lyngdorf 2170 digital amp where the RoomPerfect correction made them sound even better. Of course, tubes is still my preferred choice for most speakers unless they can’t be driven by tubes at all. The La Scalas can be driven by one single power tube. One 45 tube producing 2 watts is plenty for each channel.

The La Scalas produce wall to wall soundstaging In my large listening room (over 6000 cubic feet), and disappear in a way that seems impossible for such large refrigerator sized behemoths. Of course, they are incredibly dynamic even at the relatively low volumes I listen at. My Quads would always distort at climaxes, but I don’t need to worry about that anymore. Choral music by Arvo Part, Madetoja, Schubert, and many other classical composers sounds magnificent. I can hear the individual singers much more clearly than ever before. Classic jazz from the 1950s-60s sounds great as well. Drum kits are explosive. Of course, rock and roll brings you to the concert. LOUD. If you want.

The lead designer at Klipsch, Roy Delgado, described the La Scala as an “acoustic amplifier”. That’s a good phrase. It’s hard to think of many speakers that have less than 0.1% distortion at 100 +dB. Audiophiles, including me, get all wrapped up in frequency response curves (e.g., see audioscience.com). But rags like Stereophile never publish distortion measurements of loudspeakers because they are all so terrible (I mean, who wants to insult a well-heeled manufacturer placing ads in your rag by showing their speaker has 10% distortion in the bass, as most do). The La Scalas were not designed for flat frequency response. They were designed for one purpose only. To act as an acoustic amplifier that reproduces the input signal with the lowest possible distortion at any volume level you would rationally or irrationally listen at.

So, if you want a pleasant tone control that has a lot of distortion in the bass and cabinet resonances, buy a Harbeth Monitor 40.XX. TAS wants you to, as does Stereophile. If you want an acoustic amplifier that reproduces the input signal with the lowest distortion, buy the La Scala. And stop reading audiophile rags! Sell your boat anchor amplifier. You need only 2 watts. Milliwatts actually.

P.S. My Harbeth Monitor 40.1 is relegated to my kitchen pantry (we have a large pantry), where it keeps company with my wine collection. My Quad 2905 are in my dining room, only used for listening to really old mono vinyl records on a Garrard 301. The Quad has a flattering sonic profile that makes 80 year old mono vinyl sound lovely!
 

charles1dad

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@godofwealth
Thanks, I appreciate your detailed reply and listening impressions. You've satisfied my curiosity. Clearly, you find your current SET and Klipsch horn speakers pairing considerably more musically fulfilling and enjoyable than the preceding system you had. Your outcome isn't surprising.
Charles
 
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godofwealth

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I think I came to appreciate the design engineering genius of Paul Klipsch rather late in my audiophile life, but better late than never! These designs have been manufactured continuously for over 65 years in the same factory in Hope, Kansas. Quite a remarkable testament to their longevity in a field ruled by fashion. But good engineering is timeless. Klipschorns routinely come on the market that are over 50 years old. The idea of horn loading standard woofers to greatly reduce its distortion by acoustically matching the impedance between the heavy woofer cone and the much lighter air is sadly greatly under appreciated by most audiophiles as well as speaker manufacturers. Granted, you lose bass extension, but what you get in return is very low distortion in the bass at high volumes. My La Scalas use a 15 inch woofer, but only go down to 50 Hz, perhaps mid 40s with room loading. That’s really surprising because many manufacturers making speakers with 6-8 inch cones will tell you their speakers go down to 40 Hz or even lower. But what they don‘t tell you is that they have huge distortion in the bass (e.g., the popular Kef LS50 Meta has distortion approaching 100% in the bass around 90 dB). Klipsch at least on the La Scala and Klipschorn models has stuck to its guns on the virtues of horn loading the woofers, despite all the negative publicity. And despite the cost of making these rather loudspeakers, which are beautifully veneered.
 

charles1dad

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@godofwealth,
I easily acknowledge that there is some form of compromise with any audio product design decision making. Perfection doesn’t exist. So trade offs must be recognized and accepted.

In the Klipsch example, they sacrifice some bass extension capability in exchange for lower bass frequency distortion. The listener must decide what suits their objective and desires best.

I find your experience interesting and against the grain compared to the usual. It’s rare for someone to transition from massive highly powerful solid state to a very low powered tube amplifier.

It seems to require an entirely different mindset (Philosophical stance) so great is the contrast and approach. Nonetheless, you did change course in a drastic manner. It obviously was the right direction for you as you’re quite happy with your results. I sense there’s no turning back.
Charles
 

godofwealth

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Agreed. There’s always some compromises that have to be made in terms of design objectives, cost, size, and ultimately listener preferences. For example, horn loading introduces phase shifts in the bass. Whether these are audible is a matter of debate. Quads, for example, are phase true: they will accurately reproduce a square wave. Indeed, this property was originally used to test ESL 63s on the assembly line. A production model was fed an inverted square wave and acoustic output was compared with a carefully measured test model. By waving a microphone around, if the two canceled, the particular 63 on the production line passed the test. It’s a remarkably stringent test that almost every other loudspeaker, including the La Scalas, would fail on as they are not phase true. But is human hearing sensitive to phase shifts? This has been a topic of debate for decades. Most people seem entirely happy with loudspeakers that are not phase true. A small group of moving coil loudspeakers, e.g., Thiel, were designed with low order crossovers to ensure phase accuracy. But imposed a tough requirement on the drivers to be able to deal with a wider window of frequencies than if you used steeper crossovers. So it goes on. Engineering is all about trade offs.
 

jeffreybehr

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Great news--the Allnic A-6000s are repaired, running for a few hours, and sound great. My goodbuddy and I spent 4 personhours replacing a bunch of resistors with new ones* and finding and substituting other resistors for blown ones I was not aware of.. The amps sound good for being not run for many months and will be burning in all weekend and the following week.

I've made no improvements other than the new matching resistors; the 1st step to improving the amps will be some Voltage measurements so I can replace the 8 mismatched plate resistors with matching, correct-value resistors and then probably replacing a resistor feeding the 300B filaments to the correct value to create the correct filament Voltage for the EML 300B-XLSs that are on their way. (Am currently using the Psvanes that came with the amps.)

My golden-eared buddy and this tin-eared audiofool both thought the amps sound really good, and I expect they'll improve gradually over the next week or so.

* all PRPs from Sonic Craft

2022Oct07_DSF0064_Glowing in the dark_2000w.jpg
Pic was shot with my new 40MP Fuji X-H2 and 33/1.4 lens (my 'Fast Fifty').. I'm thrilled with how noise-free this looks; it was shot at F1.4, 15 seconds, and ISO400.. And using a color temperature of just over 2000 revealed some gas glowing in two of the tubes; I hope they last until the MLs get here.
 
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bonzo75

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KR or Elrog 300b will be even better offer more transparency
 

SVS

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I have been using single-stroke monoblocs on the 6C33C with an output power of 18-20 W for a very long time. They work very well with most of the modern speakers and fully reproduce any kind of music.I have been using single-stroke monoblocs on the 6C33C with an output power of 18-20 W for a very long time. They work very well with most of the modern speakers and fully reproduce any kind of music.
 

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morricab

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I have been using single-stroke monoblocs on the 6C33C with an output power of 18-20 W for a very long time. They work very well with most of the modern speakers and fully reproduce any kind of music.I have been using single-stroke monoblocs on the 6C33C with an output power of 18-20 W for a very long time. They work very well with most of the modern speakers and fully reproduce any kind of music.
I have had the 6C33c in 4 different amps over the years, starting with Silvaweld OTL monos, Wall Audio M50 monos, Ayon Spark(still have it) and Ayon Helios. Always great but not the best sound I have had.
 

SVS

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I have had the 6C33c in 4 different amps over the years, starting with Silvaweld OTL monos, Wall Audio M50 monos, Ayon Spark(still have it) and Ayon Helios. Always great but not the best sound I have had.
It all depends on the implementation. 6?33? is a very neutral lamp, it has no "own voice", so we hear the "voice" of the driver. In addition, the use of 6C33C has some features, but not all manufacturers take these features into account.
 

charles1dad

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KR or Elrog 300b will be even better offer more transparency
This could very well be the outcome in your particular case. Blanket recommendations are difficult to support due to multiple influencing factors/variables involved with each set-up and specific listener.

The EML XLS is certainly an excellent option amongst upper tier 300b tubes. They sound splendid and also possess a superb track record of reliability (No trivial consideration). Hard to declare that one of the upper tier 300bs is hands down better sounding than another. It is not that simple, it is rather individual scenario determined.
Charles
 

bonzo75

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This could very well be the outcome in your particular case. Blanket recommendations are difficult to support due to multiple influencing factors/variables involved with each set-up and specific listener.

The EML XLS is certainly an excellent option amongst upper tier 300b tubes. They sound splendid and also possess a superb track record of reliability (No trivial consideration). Hard to declare that one of the upper tier 300bs is hands down better sounding than another. It is not that simple, it is rather individual scenario determined.
Charles

the EML are not transparent to upstream changes in gear and recordings
 

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