SET amp owners thread

[charles1dad]

If this has been your outcome with the EML XLS , so be it. This hasn’t been my experience with them over many years of use. Different systems/ears, different impressions.
Charles

 

[bonzo75]

If this has been your outcome with the EML XLS , so be it. This hasn’t been my experience with them over many years of use. Different systems/ears, different impressions.
Charles

lack of transparency has nothing to do with ears. It has to do with how you judge it and how you look for it

 

[bonzo75]

If this has been your outcome with the EML XLS , so be it. This hasn’t been my experience with them over many years of use. Different systems/ears, different impressions.
Charles

did you compare EML, KR, and Elrog in the same amp?

 

[marty]

I was very wary of getting a pair of Klipsch La Scalas, given the almost uniformly negative reviews they receive in places like Stereophile or TAS. However, these rags are driven by advertising dollars and Klipsch has been around longer than any audiophile rag and will likely outlast all the current ones. La Scalas have been produced for over 60 years. They are so well designed that little needs to be changed. The only speaker I would consider owning in addition now are the even larger Klipschorns, which need corners.

I found to my surprise that the La Scalas AL5 version sounded really nice, not just with a Cary 300B SET monoblock amp, but also with a Lyngdorf 2170 digital amp where the RoomPerfect correction made them sound even better. Of course, tubes is still my preferred choice for most speakers unless they can’t be driven by tubes at all. The La Scalas can be driven by one single power tube. One 45 tube producing 2 watts is plenty for each channel.

The La Scalas produce wall to wall soundstaging In my large listening room (over 6000 cubic feet), and disappear in a way that seems impossible for such large refrigerator sized behemoths. Of course, they are incredibly dynamic even at the relatively low volumes I listen at. My Quads would always distort at climaxes, but I don’t need to worry about that anymore. Choral music by Arvo Part, Madetoja, Schubert, and many other classical composers sounds magnificent. I can hear the individual singers much more clearly than ever before. Classic jazz from the 1950s-60s sounds great as well. Drum kits are explosive. Of course, rock and roll brings you to the concert. LOUD. If you want.

The lead designer at Klipsch, Roy Delgado, described the La Scala as an “acoustic amplifier”. That’s a good phrase. It’s hard to think of many speakers that have less than 0.1% distortion at 100 +dB. Audiophiles, including me, get all wrapped up in frequency response curves (e.g., see audioscience.com). But rags like Stereophile never publish distortion measurements of loudspeakers because they are all so terrible (I mean, who wants to insult a well-heeled manufacturer placing ads in your rag by showing their speaker has 10% distortion in the bass, as most do). The La Scalas were not designed for flat frequency response. They were designed for one purpose only. To act as an acoustic amplifier that reproduces the input signal with the lowest possible distortion at any volume level you would rationally or irrationally listen at.

So, if you want a pleasant tone control that has a lot of distortion in the bass and cabinet resonances, buy a Harbeth Monitor 40.XX. TAS wants you to, as does Stereophile. If you want an acoustic amplifier that reproduces the input signal with the lowest distortion, buy the La Scala. And stop reading audiophile rags! Sell your boat anchor amplifier. You need only 2 watts. Milliwatts actually.

P.S. My Harbeth Monitor 40.1 is relegated to my kitchen pantry (we have a large pantry), where it keeps company with my wine collection. My Quad 2905 are in my dining room, only used for listening to really old mono vinyl records on a Garrard 301. The Quad has a flattering sonic profile that makes 80 year old mono vinyl sound lovely!

Great post. It really is surprising that of the 2 main attributes that effect the sound of loudspeakers; namely frequency response and distortion, almost nobody pays attention to the latter. Everybody publishes frequency response, but distortion is neglected almost completely. John Dunlavy did so years ago as do some others presently (such as subwoofer manufacturer JL Audio) but otherwise...nada!!
This should be remedied post haste!!

 

[charles1dad]

did you compare EML, KR, and Elrog in the same amp?

Yes. I have had my SET300b mono block amplifiers for 13 years. I have had Shuguang Black Treasure/Takatsuki/Sophia Electric Royal Princess/Early generation Elrog/re-issue Western Electric (circa 1980’s) /KR XLS /VAIC 32B spend time in the amplifiers. Some I owned and others were generous loans.

In my opinion the most satisfying were in no particular order,

EML XLS, Elrog, Takatsuki and VAIC. I have no doubt that a certain amplifier given a specific circuit would favor one of these tubes over the others. I did not intend to go off topic. However, some 300b will be better choices in some amplifiers/systems than others. Nothing new there.
Charles

 

[bonzo75]

Yes. I have had my SET300b mono block amplifiers for 13 years. I have had Shuguang Black Treasure/Takatsuki/Sophia Electric Royal Princess/Early generation Elrog/re/issue Western Electric (circa 1980’s) /KR XLS /VAIC 32B spend time in the amplifiers.

In my opinion the most satisfying were in no particular order,

EML XLS, Elrog, Takatsuki and VAIC. I have no doubt that a certain amplifier given a specific circuit would favor one of these tubes over the others.
Charles

so you don’t find Tak coloured either? I am not asking if you like them or not

 

[charles1dad]

so you don’t find Tak coloured either? I am not asking if you like them or not

Colored? What tube or for that matter transistor does not have a sonic signature/coloration?

Yes, I am choosing them by how I like their sound, otherwise why would I want to listen to them reproducing music? I guess we just make assessments and judgments differently . That’s okay.
Charles

 

[bonzo75]

Colored? What tube or for that matter transistor does not have a sonic signature/coloration?

Yes, I am choosing them by how I like their sound, otherwise why would I want to listen to them reproducing music? I guess we just make assessments and judgments differently . That’s okay.
Charles

when I say not transparent to changes what is your interpretation of that statement?

 

[charles1dad]

My assumption is you mean the ability to clearly hear and distinguish differences/nuance from one recording to another, or one audio product (Cable/component/capacitor etc.) to another. IOW no obstructing masking taking place.
Charles

 

[bonzo75]

My assumption is you mean the ability to clearly hear and distinguish differences/nuance from one recording to another, or one audio product (Cable/component/capacitor etc.) to another. IOW no obstructing masking taking place.
Charles

yes and that’s part of music as the venue is on the recording. If the valve imposes its signature and all recordings sound similar that is not part of the music

 

[charles1dad]

yes and that’s part of music as the venue is on the recording. If the valve imposes its signature and all recordings sound similar that is not part of the music

Yes, this is understood. Not an issue with the EML XLS in my system whatsoever. Let’s see what the OP finds when he uses these tubes in his Allnic amplifiers.
Charles

 

[bonzo75]

Yes, this is understood. Not an issue with the EML XLS in my system whatsoever. Let’s see what the OP finds when he uses these tubes in his Allnic amplifiers.
Charles

depends on what recordings are being used and what is looked for

 

[morricab]

It all depends on the implementation. 6?33? is a very neutral lamp, it has no "own voice", so we hear the "voice" of the driver. In addition, the use of 6C33C has some features, but not all manufacturers take these features into account.

My understanding is that it is actually not that linear as far as triodes go but the low plate resistance has an advantage in the transformer design...or even no transformer! Most of the implementations I have owned/heard are a bit warmish in character and with balls dynamically.

 

[morricab]

did you compare EML, KR, and Elrog in the same amp?

That still won't give you a definitive answer... just for that amp. The Ayon 62b and 82b are made by EML I believe and are plenty transparent.

 

[morricab]

yes and that’s part of music as the venue is on the recording. If the valve imposes its signature and all recordings sound similar that is not part of the music

All valves have a signature... None are invisible...

 

[bonzo75]

All valves have a signature... None are invisible...

who said invisible, and never commented on Ayon

 

[cal3713]

who said invisible, and never commented on Ayon

What's the opposite of colored? You say transparent... should we pull up a thesaurus?

Different systems, different ears, different preferences. That is all.

 

[bonzo75]

What's the opposite of colored? You say transparent... should we pull up a thesaurus?

Different systems, different ears, different preferences. That is all.

one more transparent than other doesn’t make the other invisible.

 

[cal3713]

one more transparent than other doesn’t make the other invisible.

Very true.

 

[morricab]

who said invisible, and never commented on Ayon

Ayon’s output tubes are made by EML…ergo…