Shootout of Nos 6sn7 tubes

[Mendel]

Hi my endgame 6sn7 is the Linlai Elite, it is airy and spacious but big, for Feliks audio Euforia

Interesting, I am hearing some good things about Linlai tubes. My experience with pricey “premium”Chinese tubes (PissVane and Treasure) has not been good, they always sound good at first but soon grow noisy or fail outright. Don’t you hate it when $100 tubes only last a few months?
Do they do that ridiculous “grade A”, “grade B”, “export grade” stuff, indicating that everything they produce is sold weather it meets specification or not (like PV and Treasure did)? How long have you been using them for? What other top 6SN7s have you compared them to?

 

[Yoram Diamand]

Interesting, I am hearing some good things about Linlai tubes. My experience with pricey “premium”Chinese tubes (PissVane and Treasure) has not been good, they always sound good at first but soon grow noisy or fail outright. Don’t you hate it when $100 tubes only last a few months?
Do they do that ridiculous “grade A”, “grade B”, “export grade” stuff, indicating that everything they produce is sold weather it meets specification or not (like PV and Treasure did)? How long have you been using them for? What other top 6SN7s have you compared them to?

some months I have them, and they are better than Psvane cv 181- ii

 

[Music and Wine]

Hallo
I been following this thread from the beginning.Very interesting.I agree with most of the comments.I am lucky I got about 35 different 6sn7 .maybe more ,from the all around the world, including the rare Swedish 33S30B and B65 and all the Mullards and Brimar,s ECC32 and 33 .You having a big discussion about the 1578,I got around 50 matched pair the oldest 1970 and the newest a 1981 and with deep gray to light grey and some with brow plates and some with the 1578 Stamp and some not.The question what is the best,well very difficult,because I can not measure a difference and cannot hear any difference.They sound the same too me.I personally think the 1578 it is one of the best,but what is the best,well it all depends on what you like and the recording and room acoustics.I just moved house,not 100% correct,I moved into another continent,that’s more accurate.The room acoustics are so different that everything that I believed is sorted out,what tubes work the best and with what music,I has all changed.The last 2 month, I am trying all my tubes again and in different combinations.My preamp uses 12AT7/ECC81and 6SN7/12SN7 and power amp 12ax7/ECC83 and 12au7/ECC82 amp power tubes a pair of TV sweep tubes 17JN6 per channel.If you ask me what is the best 6SN7 the answer would be,the best 6SN7 is not an 6SN7 but a 6J8G with adapter,but right here is get very difficult,because most of then the manufacturer name on the tube,is not always what you may get .I got Ken Rad in Sylvania boxes, and Raytheon in Sylvania boxes and National in Sylvania boxes all completely different constructions,the only ones that are easy make out is the TungSol with the black bottle,but you get a round plate and ladder plate ones.The best of the 6J8G is for me the Ken Rad and the TungSol Ladder plate,even if the round plate costs much much more.I have been collecting tubes for over 30 years and let me tell you ,tubes can be a mine field.Don’t always believe what is written on the tubes or boxes are correct,It takes lots of experience and time to sometimes correctly identify a tube,it sometimes takes days and weeks and in the past I have been a victim with tubes.The last time was when I ordered about 3 years ago when I ordered 1578 from Ebay and got 1955 ,6N8 and paid Euro 200 a pair,but the person told me and even showed me a picture of the1578.The 6N8 is ok but not great,wont make my list of top 20 ,6SN7. From here the science is lost and it becomes hype ,woodoo and believe .I know and I also belong in this group .the NOS tubes are the best and yes most of the best are all NOS 6SN7,but don’t underestimate the new top 6SN7 from China,I got a Psvane Mark 2 and Sophia Blue bottle and the Shuguang and the massive Globe Tube from Treasure also from Shuguang.The big problem with these tubes are the prices.To pay almost as much for some of these new Chinese Tubes that a Pair of Tungsol oval plates,that I find ridiculous,but if I ordered them myself ,I must not complain and a I ordered all of them,so I have to take the punch.Are they any good,yes they are,they are really good,The Blue Bottle Sophia is stunning,very open,fast with a massive soundstage,very good detail,but this tubes needs 100 hours before it develops any bass,I usually don’t believe in burning in Tubes or not much at least ,but this one that needs it.The big Globe Shuguang is one of my top 5 ,6SN7 of all time,with an soundstage as big as your room but nothing is bloated,lovely tube,but it doesn’t fit under my preamp,s top cover so I hardly use it ,because I don’t want to run the preamp without top cover,not because of any danger, but I highly modified it and it does not look that need.Well one off the best 6SN7 is also not an 6SN7,it is a 7N7 with adapter,basically 95% of all 7N7 were made by Sylvania and you get 3 different one ,one with staggered plates small bottle and a T- plate,small bottle and the big bottle with the same plate structure than the Sylvania VT 231,some people are raving about the Sylvania VT 231 or Bad Boy tube,well this 7N7 gives you everything,but because this tube got small pins like a EL84 you have to clean then and it is a tedious job,with a steel wire brush and fine sandpaper and clean every pin one by one.The good news are these tubes are cheap ,but can also be very microphonic so selecting and measuring each tube all over again.This make tube rolling so interesting and hard work.I strongly believe everybody must make up his own mid ,what is the best tube for him and if it is the cheapest tube of the all,so be it and for better.I is a joy to read some comments about the TungSol Oval/ round plate,this is the first time I ever seen that anybody criticises them ever,well I don’t criticise them but love them,but that is my opinion.Some people believe if you criticise the TungSol Round/ oval plate tube ,then there is something wrong with your system,full stop.So far I would no go,but it is even for me difficult to imagine a system where it would not sound good .Luckily I covered the ridiculous asking price ,years ago,when I bought about 20 pairs for $50 a pair each.I was fortunate about 30 years ago and been on a US action and bought a truck full with tubes,including the truck with a Dutch person and he was also my mentor of tubes .Well ,my HiFi system is running now and I got a pair of Raytheon VT231 brown base ,with flat ladder plates in at the moment.My preamp at the moment got 1965 Siemens&Haslke E81cc and the Raytheon 6SN7 and my power amp running with Raytheon black long plate 12AX7 from around 1957-1958 and another Siemens&Haslke Chrome plate ECC82 from 1963.

Just to give my opinion,I hope nobody will get influenced ,but rather make up his or her own mind what it the best 6SN7

My top are not by oder but random,TungSol oval/ round/ VT231 ,just for interest,the oval and the VT 231 TungSol are the exactly same tubes.Raytheon VT 231 ladder plates,the 1578,any one with the same construction that measures well,Shuguang Globe Tube,Hytron Jan- CHY 6SN7 GT, Ken Rad VT 231 ,the big bottle Sylvania 7N7 with the same plate structureas the Sylvania VT231and my favorite the Ken Rad VT99 ,6J8G.

Many will ask where are then MO Valve Company B65 or the Swedish 33S30B and the Mullards and Brimar and some will ask me ,don’t you have any Telefunken 6SN7,yes I got about 6 pairs,some were made in Sweden,the the same Tube as the 33S30B and some,well I don’t know where they made because of all my research I could never find any proof that Telefunken ever made a 6SN7.It is well known that Telefunken relabelled Tubes ,like the 6SN7,because if they made them themselves they would have the diamond mark,like all great Telefunken have and made in Germany in Berlin or Ulm factory.So this is a highly debated story ,the Telefunken 6SN7 mystery and you will hear 100 different options,what is correct,I don’t know .Some were made in Eastern Europe and some were bought from Phillips,but where did Phillips got them from.who knows .All these tubes don’t fall under the best,they all sound great but lack dynamics and speed and detail and extended high frequencies and tight bass.

Keep on rolling these tubes,this is a hobby we must live,because we are the last generation,after us there will be no NOS left ,they will all be gone.

sorry for the long story

Cheers

 

[acousticsguru]

Hallo
I been following this thread from the beginning.Very interesting.I agree with most of the comments.I am lucky I got about 35 different 6sn7 .maybe more ,from the all around the world, including the rare Swedish 33S30B and B65 and all the Mullards and Brimar,s ECC32 and 33 .You having a big discussion about the 1578,I got around 50 matched pair the oldest 1970 and the newest a 1981 and with deep gray to light grey and some with brow plates and some with the 1578 Stamp and some not.The question what is the best,well very difficult,because I can not measure a difference and cannot hear any difference.They sound the same too me.I personally think the 1578 it is one of the best,but what is the best,well it all depends on what you like and the recording and room acoustics.I just moved house,not 100% correct,I moved into another continent,that’s more accurate.The room acoustics are so different that everything that I believed is sorted out,what tubes work the best and with what music,I has all changed.The last 2 month, I am trying all my tubes again and in different combinations.My preamp uses 12AT7/ECC81and 6SN7/12SN7 and power amp 12ax7/ECC83 and 12au7/ECC82 amp power tubes a pair of TV sweep tubes 17JN6 per channel.If you ask me what is the best 6SN7 the answer would be,the best 6SN7 is not an 6SN7 but a 6J8G with adapter,but right here is get very difficult,because most of then the manufacturer name on the tube,is not always what you may get .I got Ken Rad in Sylvania boxes, and Raytheon in Sylvania boxes and National in Sylvania boxes all completely different constructions,the only ones that are easy make out is the TungSol with the black bottle,but you get a round plate and ladder plate ones.The best of the 6J8G is for me the Ken Rad and the TungSol Ladder plate,even if the round plate costs much much more.I have been collecting tubes for over 30 years and let me tell you ,tubes can be a mine field.Don’t always believe what is written on the tubes or boxes are correct,It takes lots of experience and time to sometimes correctly identify a tube,it sometimes takes days and weeks and in the past I have been a victim with tubes.The last time was when I ordered about 3 years ago when I ordered 1578 from Ebay and got 1955 ,6N8 and paid Euro 200 a pair,but the person told me and even showed me a picture of the1578.The 6N8 is ok but not great,wont make my list of top 20 ,6SN7. From here the science is lost and it becomes hype ,woodoo and believe .I know and I also belong in this group .the NOS tubes are the best and yes most of the best are all NOS 6SN7,but don’t underestimate the new top 6SN7 from China,I got a Psvane Mark 2 and Sophia Blue bottle and the Shuguang and the massive Globe Tube from Treasure also from Shuguang.The big problem with these tubes are the prices.To pay almost as much for some of these new Chinese Tubes that a Pair of Tungsol oval plates,that I find ridiculous,but if I ordered them myself ,I must not complain and a I ordered all of them,so I have to take the punch.Are they any good,yes they are,they are really good,The Blue Bottle Sophia is stunning,very open,fast with a massive soundstage,very good detail,but this tubes needs 100 hours before it develops any bass,I usually don’t believe in burning in Tubes or not much at least ,but this one that needs it.The big Globe Shuguang is one of my top 5 ,6SN7 of all time,with an soundstage as big as your room but nothing is bloated,lovely tube,but it doesn’t fit under my preamp,s top cover so I hardly use it ,because I don’t want to run the preamp without top cover,not because of any danger, but I highly modified it and it does not look that need.Well one off the best 6SN7 is also not an 6SN7,it is a 7N7 with adapter,basically 95% of all 7N7 were made by Sylvania and you get 3 different one ,one with staggered plates small bottle and a T- plate,small bottle and the big bottle with the same plate structure than the Sylvania VT 231,some people are raving about the Sylvania VT 231 or Bad Boy tube,well this 7N7 gives you everything,but because this tube got small pins like a EL84 you have to clean then and it is a tedious job,with a steel wire brush and fine sandpaper and clean every pin one by one.The good news are these tubes are cheap ,but can also be very microphonic so selecting and measuring each tube all over again.This make tube rolling so interesting and hard work.I strongly believe everybody must make up his own mid ,what is the best tube for him and if it is the cheapest tube of the all,so be it and for better.I is a joy to read some comments about the TungSol Oval/ round plate,this is the first time I ever seen that anybody criticises them ever,well I don’t criticise them but love them,but that is my opinion.Some people believe if you criticise the TungSol Round/ oval plate tube ,then there is something wrong with your system,full stop.So far I would no go,but it is even for me difficult to imagine a system where it would not sound good .Luckily I covered the ridiculous asking price ,years ago,when I bought about 20 pairs for $50 a pair each.I was fortunate about 30 years ago and been on a US action and bought a truck full with tubes,including the truck with a Dutch person and he was also my mentor of tubes .Well ,my HiFi system is running now and I got a pair of Raytheon VT231 brown base ,with flat ladder plates in at the moment.My preamp at the moment got 1965 Siemens&Haslke E81cc and the Raytheon 6SN7 and my power amp running with Raytheon black long plate 12AX7 from around 1957-1958 and another Siemens&Haslke Chrome plate ECC82 from 1963.

Just to give my opinion,I hope nobody will get influenced ,but rather make up his or her own mind what it the best 6SN7

My top are not by oder but random,TungSol oval/ round/ VT231 ,just for interest,the oval and the VT 231 TungSol are the exactly same tubes.Raytheon VT 231 ladder plates,the 1578,any one with the same construction that measures well,Shuguang Globe Tube,Hytron Jan- CHY 6SN7 GT, Ken Rad VT 231 ,the big bottle Sylvania 7N7 with the same plate structureas the Sylvania VT231and my favorite the Ken Rad VT99 ,6J8G.

Many will ask where are then MO Valve Company B65 or the Swedish 33S30B and the Mullards and Brimar and some will ask me ,don’t you have any Telefunken 6SN7,yes I got about 6 pairs,some were made in Sweden,the the same Tube as the 33S30B and some,well I don’t know where they made because of all my research I could never find any proof that Telefunken ever made a 6SN7.It is well known that Telefunken relabelled Tubes ,like the 6SN7,because if they made them themselves they would have the diamond mark,like all great Telefunken have and made in Germany in Berlin or Ulm factory.So this is a highly debated story ,the Telefunken 6SN7 mystery and you will hear 100 different options,what is correct,I don’t know .Some were made in Eastern Europe and some were bought from Phillips,but where did Phillips got them from.who knows .All these tubes don’t fall under the best,they all sound great but lack dynamics and speed and detail and extended high frequencies and tight bass.

Keep on rolling these tubes,this is a hobby we must live,because we are the last generation,after us there will be no NOS left ,they will all be gone.

sorry for the long story

Cheers

Nice, thanks! Just to be sure, are you referring to 6J8G or VT99/6F8G as a drop-in for 6SN7?

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

 

[Music and Wine]

Hi

The 6J8G and the VT99 is the same tube,the VT99 is just the military designated tube.Most of the times the military designated tube and the normal 6j8G tube are exactly the same tube,but people charge you more,just want you to believe it is better ,but it is the same tube.

Cheers

 

[acousticsguru]

Hi

The 6J8G and the VT99 is the same tube,the VT99 is just the military designated tube.Most of the times the military designated tube and the normal 6j8G tube are exactly the same tube,but people charge you more,just want you to believe it is better ,but it is the same tube.

Cheers

Still confused as 6F8G and 6J8G do not appear to be the same tube (6SN7 = Uf 6.3 Volt / If 0.6 Ampere, which corresponds to 6F8G but not 6J8G):

https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6f8g.html
https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6j8g.html

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

 

[Music and Wine]

Hello

My mistake,I am talking about the 6F8G tube,sorry .The 6j8G is a different tube.The 6F8G and the VT99 is the same tube,if they produced in the same time period.The manufacturers, produced one tube for the civilian and the same one for the military and they all came from the same production line.The military tubes were batch screened and the ones that passed that went to the military,what happened to the rejected one ,who knows exactly,they were sold to a third party,but what happened then ,I don't know ,maybe they the ones we see now and pay a lot for them,but really it is difficult,we will never know fore-sure.

Sorry for the confusion.

Cheers

 

[acousticsguru]

Hello

My mistake,I am talking about the 6F8G tube,sorry .The 6j8G is a different tube.The 6F8G and the VT99 is the same tube,if they produced in the same time period.The manufacturers, produced one tube for the civilian and the same one for the military and they all came from the same production line.The military tubes were batch screened and the ones that passed that went to the military,what happened to the rejected one ,who knows exactly,they were sold to a third party,but what happened then ,I don't know ,maybe they the ones we see now and pay a lot for them,but really it is difficult,we will never know fore-sure.

Sorry for the confusion.

Cheers

I see. So your favorite tube for this is the Ken-Rad 6F8G? I’d been wondering about trying some 6F8G, thanks for the suggestion!

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

 

[Music and Wine]

Hi

Yes,in my system then Ken Rad 6F8G is the best of all the 6SN7 and 6F8G(VT99),but I am always looking for a very detailed and fast tube,in my system the warm tubes just get slow and the bass get loose .Tubes are very personal and system dependant. I have used different tubes with my previous systems and the choices were different,but the worst tube never became the best tube.If I take the 3-5 best 6SN7 and best 6F8G and the best 7N7 I think one of then will suit most systems,for my liking,but a different person may feel different.If I just swap my power cords from Copper to silver my choice of tubes change slightly.I have to get new tube sockets because I changed so many 6SN7 or alike that my sockets are completely worn.A job for another day.I believe the 6SN7 and alike tubes are some of the best medium gain double triodes ever produced.Just the prices that have become mad,the last 10-20 years.

Cheers

 

[highstream]

Numbers like VT-99 were model numbers, used for inventory and ordering. I agree it’s very personal. Very detailed and seemingly fast tubes (and cables), e.g., RK 5U4G and some of the 6SN7, leave me pissed off, wanting to throw the system out the window. I prefer the WWII era Sylvania 6F8G, although their degree of modest warmth varied, for example between 1939 and 1943 (both much less than the RCA, which I find boring). It’s even possible I suppose that it depended on who made the tube, since under war production pressure manufacturers were helping each other out, and the name on the tube didn’t always match who produced it. With powered ATC’s, I find the tightness of the bass has as much to do with the speaker cone model used, as it does the tube. I’m about to find out what the Shuguang Treasure Globe has to offer.

 

[acousticsguru]

Numbers like VT-99 were model numbers, used for inventory and ordering. I agree it’s very personal. Very detailed and seemingly fast tubes (and cables), e.g., RK 5U4G and some of the 6SN7, leave me pissed off, wanting to throw the system out the window. I prefer the WWII era Sylvania 6F8G, although their degree of modest warmth varied, for example between 1939 and 1943 (both much less than the RCA, which I find boring). It’s even possible I suppose that it depended on who made the tube, since under war production pressure manufacturers were helping each other out, and the name on the tube didn’t always match who produced it. With powered ATC’s, I find the tightness of the bass has as much to do with the speaker cone model used, as it does the tube. I’m about to find out what the Shuguang Treasure Globe has to offer.

If you do try the Shuguang Treasure Globe 6SN7-SE, let us know what you think! Said to be one of the best in modern production, always curious as to how well modern production compares to NOS.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

 

[highstream]

It's out for postal delivery today. Should take a few weeks to burn in, as I don’t want to wear down the other tubes by running the preamp continuously.

 

[Lowrider75]

Has anybody tried the new Shuguang WE6SN7?
Even though WE never made a 6SN7, it's being marketed that way.
Sorry if this has been mentioned already.

 

[DeadWax]

My top are not by order but random, TungSol oval/ round/ VT231

I haven't tried an extensive list of 6SN7's but the Tung Sol round plates are my favorite at this point.

 

[Lowrider75]

I haven't tried an extensive list of 6SN7's but the Tung Sol round plates are my favorite at this point.
View attachment 81587

My fav as well. Have you seen the prices lately?

 

[DeadWax]

My fav as well. Have you seen the prices lately?

I'm afraid to look. Hopefully my one pair lasts a number of more years.

 

[Lowrider75]

I haven't tried an extensive list of 6SN7's but the Tung Sol round plates are my favorite at this point.
View attachment 81587

My fav as well. Have you seen the prices lately

I'm afraid to look. Hopefully my one pair lasts a number of more years.

Same here. I'll probably never own another pair. Ebay prices range from $450 to $900.

 

[acousticsguru]

Has anybody tried the new Shuguang WE6SN7?
Even though WE never made a 6SN7, it's being marketed that way.
Sorry if this has been mentioned already.

Following this as I’m curious if anyone tried/knows this, but am wondering what “new” means in this context, as Shuguang’s factory appears to have been closed several years ago, and despite earlier plans of reopening another, there have been no further news?

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

 

[Lowrider75]

Following this as I’m curious if anyone tried/knows this, but am wondering what “new” means in this context, as Shuguang’s factory appears to have been closed several years ago, and despite earlier plans of reopening another, there have been no further news?

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

Yes, last I heard they closed the factory and there was a run to grab their power tubes.

 

[highstream]

Who is making the GF Treasure Globe? I thought it was Shuguang, but there are no factory brand markings on the tube. The base is the same color as Shuguang.