Should you have to pay to audition speakers

[treitz3]

Yes, Bob. You are correct. Please allow me to remind all of you one of the Terms of Service of this forum. This is directed at no one in particular.

6. Please do not attempt to moderate the forum on your own. If you see objectionable posts, please report them. We will deal with them. Above all, focus on the topic being discussed, rather than the person discussing it.

The thread will remain open for now, as it does pose a good question. That said, no more jabs to the OP will be tolerated from this post forth. The point has been made and it will remain, however, lets move on.

Tom

 

[Kal Rubinson]

-----And that dealer Kal, do you personally do business (deal) with him?

I have done some but my relationship with him is not the same as that of the general public. My point was that his business model seems to work.

 

[NorthStar]

---It's like: What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. :b

I am as guilty as stepping out sometimes. So it is a good reminder Tom.

* This thread is a good one, and so far the votes are divided?
Or are there more people in favor of free speakers' demos?
...In-store auditions because that's the main question here. Yup? :b

 

[NorthStar]

I have done some but my relationship with him is not the same as that of the general public. My point was that his business model seems to work.

Would you say it's fair to say that it is more the exception than the general rule?

* And like I said before; each customer deserves his own personal attention.
It is the basic rule of our hobby, I think.

 

[audioarcher]

I understand the frustration of tire kickers for dealers. That said if they are open regular hours and have enough staff I don't see how it is a waste of time for them. Unless someone walks in that wants to buy something and leaves because they could not get helped I see no loss of income.

This question only really applies to small time dealers that are one or two man shows. These type dealers usually require you to set an appointment with them. I can understand with a low volume seller it may not be worth it for them unless they charge a fee.

The problem with charging a fee is it creates a risk for the customer if they don't want to buy the product. If I wanted that kind of hassel I would just buy used.

Sean

 

[treitz3]

To me, this is the same thing as having to fork out 250 smackers at any of the high end audio shows just to enter a room and audition. By the end of the show, if nothing struck your fancy, you'd have to go home and explain to your wife why you came home empty handed but now you can't afford her new convertible Jaguar due to all of the auditioning fees. I've actually heard some systems over the 100K mark that I would have to charge the dealers to make me listen too again.

Tom

 

[NorthStar]

I've actually heard some systems over the 100K mark that I would have to charge the dealers to make me listen too again.

Tom

---- Good one!

* If an audio dealer wants my business; the price of admission to him is free speaker's auditioning.
...Which is totally normal and makes complete common sense.

 

[Bill Hart]

To me, this is the same thing as having to fork out 250 smackers at any of the high end audio shows just to enter a room and audition. By the end of the show, if nothing struck your fancy, you'd have to go home and explain to your wife why you came home empty handed but now you can't afford her new convertible Jaguar due to all of the auditioning fees. I've actually heard some systems over the 100K mark that I would have to charge the dealers to make me listen too again.
Tom

But, you could then score bonus points by explaining that a Jaguar is not really what's best anyway.

 

[JackD201]

How about we look at this from a consumer benefits point of view. Let's say it is a 90lb amp or a big pair of loudspeakers, would you rather pick up and install the unit and take on all risks or would you rather pay a small fee, sit back and chill knowing that if anything breaks you've got no problems? It's great if you have a personal relationship with your dealers and they're willing to do it for you for free. Even then, I always give the guys they send a little something for their trouble. If I'm supposed to tip my waitress 10 to 15 percent for bringing me a coke and a sandwich I don't see anything wrong with treating guys to the equivalent of a simple meal for bringing me half their bodyweight or more. The dealers don't mind that I do that either even if they don't charge me anything.

I'm a dealer and I don't charge any fees but I do have to draw the line somewhere. If we're talking about say a pair of VR-9s or 11s, I'm hiring a truck and movers. I'm also insuring them. Buyers understand this so it has never been a problem. The you break it, you buy it rule takes care of everything else.

 

[NorthStar]

Jack, are you talking about the dealer's own room, or the potential buyer's room?
...And outside regular hours?

It's important to make the distinction here. ...Two quite different things.

 

[JackD201]

I'm only talking about home auditions. In store, no way man. To me that would be extremely pretentious.

Now I'm wondering if the store charges everyone or just the OP. Just kidding! LOL.

 

[audioarcher]

How about we look at this from a consumer benefits point of view. Let's say it is a 90lb amp or a big pair of loudspeakers, would you rather pick up and install the unit and take on all risks or would you rather pay a small fee, sit back and chill knowing that if anything breaks you've got no problems? It's great if you have a personal relationship with your dealers and they're willing to do it for you for free. Even then, I always give the guys they send a little something for their trouble. If I'm supposed to tip my waitress 10 to 15 percent for bringing me a coke and a sandwich I don't see anything wrong with treating guys to the equivalent of a simple meal for bringing me half their bodyweight or more. The dealers don't mind that I do that either even if they don't charge me anything.

I'm a dealer and I don't charge any fees but I do have to draw the line somewhere. If we're talking about say a pair of VR-9s or 11s, I'm hiring a truck and movers. I'm also insuring them. Buyers understand this so it has never been a problem. The you break it, you buy it rule takes care of everything else.

Personally I would not even consider asking for an in home demo of something that is so large that I can't move it myself.

You can't really get the full measure of large speakers unless you have the right amp to drive them and enough time to position them in your room anyway. If you really want to demo large speakers in your own room then it makes sense to pay for the expense of moving and setting them up if you don't buy.

 

[NorthStar]

I was speaking to a dealer last week that carries a speaker I am Interested in. He told me he could set up a private audition at his store for me but he would require a 250.00 deposit. He said If I purchased the speakers he would apply the 250.00 towards the purchase price. I have been around audio since the late 70's and this is the first time I have been asked to pay for an audition.

I'm only talking about home auditions. In store, no way man. To me that would be extremely pretentious.

Now I'm wondering if the store charges everyone or just the OP. Just kidding! LOL.

That's what I thought. ...I did include the OP's first original post.

______________________

- I could explain how I proceeded myself in the past to purchase loudspeakers from audio dealers (who also are friends), but these were very personal situations; and each time the dealer and I we both benefited.
Now I'm talking in private, at my own places (homes), with the audio dealer delivering the goods himself, after hours. And both, or I alone setting them up (manageable weight for myself, and I was also much stronger back then).

BUT! At the audio store, no way Jose! I would never pay to 'enter'* an high-end audio store! NAVA!

* 'Enter', auditioning, same meaning to me.

________________

Last: Yesterday (20-30 years ago) was then, today they have much bigger gear (loudspeakers) that weight as much as a skyscraper!
So if I audition speakers from that dealer at my place, I have already a backup plan (another pair or two that I would buy from him if that pair I'm auditioning right now is not to my taste); so the time spent by him at delivering, setting, etc., is gained back by an official sale.
When you're smart, and that you're dealing with the right audio dealer, cost of doing business is not even part of the equation. ...In my book anyway. I'm happy to have a good sound, and the dealer is happy for me. Money simply tranfers hands and bank accounts. :b

And this, is private service, at my own home.
But at an audio dealer store, things are different (business hours).
Some days he's just too busy; no problemo, I'll come back another day when the store is empty (no customers). :b

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Would you say it's fair to say that it is more the exception than the general rule?

I am afraid I do not understand what you are asking.

* And like I said before; each customer deserves his own personal attention.
It is the basic rule of our hobby, I think.

Ideally but I have never seen that enacted into law. Besides, I do not see that as an issue here. We are discussing whether it is kosher to demand payment for that attention.

 

[NorthStar]

-- Kal, I simply meant that usually, most audio dealers don't charge their customers to audition speakers at their audio stores. The vast majority (90%+, if not more).
...In-home-audition (private, after business hours); I just don't know enough on this.
...Because of the ultra high-end audio stores all across our planet, and all the particularities.

And the second thought was my opinion regarding good relationship between audio dealers and customers.
But I agree with you; it's not what's happening in reality, unfortunately.

And now it's too late (in general), as we are living in another era (Internet & all its derivatives).

_____________________

The rich people doesn't care to pay for 'special service' (auditions).

But the vast majority of people, in this economy, is looking to save, money.

Who am I? ...A poor people, that's who.

 

[puroagave]

would a $250 refundable fee by a brick & mortar store with high overhead be out of line, especially if he stocks that expensive item and you can take it home the same day? what about the guy that sells out of his house (no overhead) and does 'audio' on the side (has a regular job) as a way to 'try' gear at dealer cost?

i was part of a local audio society where the monthly meetings were almost always at the same brick & mortar store, in speaking with members very few actually owned gear that dealer sold and if they did they got it on audiomart (back then) or audiogon. they never seemed to have two nickels to rub together to buy that special $10 CD or LP that was being offered that night... but boy, could they talk audio and eat the dealers FREE food/drink and look him in the eye at the end of the evening and not feel the least bit of shame.

if a dealer ever did ask me for a deposit, i guess it cuts both ways why not find out the best price he would sell it for before wasting either his or my time? if the discount were generous i'd bet the likelyhood of him making the sale and you feeling good about the deal is highly probable and a win-win for all involved.

 

[Ethan Winer]

Let's say i want to buy a pair of speakers that cost 100K.
do you really think while listening to 2-4 of them I need to pay 250$ for each audition?

Maybe not, though most speakers cost a lot less than that. It's the audio equivalent of the 99% versus the 1%.

It's also not unreasonable to expect dealers to just absorb tire-kickers as the cost of doing business. If you give five hour-long demos for each $100,000 sale, that's still a mighty nice chunk of change per hour. Is dealer cost still 50% off? If so, that's $10,000 per hour!

As I said, there's no one correct answer, and as a consumerist and a vendor I can see both sides.

--Ethan

 

[Ethan Winer]

Ethan's post made me think that the guy wants to audition something totally over the top- big Wilsons, MBLs, whatever, and then is going to go home and build them himself!

I was thinking more about spending an hour at a local dealer asking them to play this model speaker, then that model, then another model, then leaving the store and buying the ones he liked most online. I would never do that, but apparently a lot of people do.

--Ethan

 

[Gregadd]

That's why a group demo makes so much more sense.

 

[NorthStar]

That's why a group demo makes so much more sense.

-----Some dealers do just that, on occasions for big items like high-end loudspeakers. :b