Should you have to pay to audition speakers

[NMMark1962]

Steve,

Let's say (for fun sake) you had the opportunity to have a pair of Magico 7s or Gen 1s and full Soulution kit installed in your home for two weeks, moving the Wilsons, and everything else that involves all provided by the dealer... it could be worth the $250 for your knowledge base. It vests you in to seriously give them a shake. You can say to yourself... I spent the $250 and now I want to know.

If I was asking a dealer to bring in a monster speaker for me to listen to (and move MY monster speaker) I would gladly pay something for the privilege...I think it would be the height of arrogance to ask my future dealer (in Miami) to bring a pair of Alexandria XLF's.....heck, it would cost more than $250 to hire the movers to schlep 600lb speakers...and ask for it to be free?? OY!!

Now, if my dealer in Miami charged me $250 to come into the store where the multi ton rig is already setup to listen to it, I would say adios muchachos...

Cheers,

 

[nirodha]

I was speaking to a dealer last week that carries a speaker I am Interested in. He told me he could set up a private audition at his store for me but he would require a 250.00 deposit. He said If I purchased the speakers he would apply the 250.00 towards the purchase price. I have been around audio since the late 70's and this is the first time I have been asked to pay for an audition.

I even ASKED to pay for a three-day home audition of the Kef 207/2. Later on I was happy that I did. A different dealer accepted my trade-ins for a great price while my audition dealer refused to take them at all. By paying the latter, I didn't feel bad when I bought somewhere else.

 

[Alan Sircom]

Unfortunately, the old adage about a few bad apples seems to apply.

I understand that it takes time to properly set up a demonstration in store, but that's all part of being an audio retailer. In fairness, I think very few dealers do charge for demonstrations, and fewer still are in a position to charge for an installation and stay in business, but the concept tarnishes even those who would never consider such an idea.

Also, I think most people would not have a problem with a paying for the dealer's time and mileage for home installation. However, the few that consider dealers can provide repeated no-cost home demonstrations of products they have no intention of buying have spoiled this for the majority.

While there is no 'fair use' charter between dealer and client, it would be best if everyone behaved as if there were such a thing. That way, we'd get no more instances of:

- Customers traveling miles to visit a dealer to hear a specific device, only to find the dealer doesn't stock that device and tries to sell them something else
- Dealers loaning equipment on home demonstration, only to find it had been used in an underwater knife fight during the loan period
- Customers finding their demonstration wasn't booked, and then being told it was their fault
- Dealers being asked to obtain a specific 'flavour of the month' product, only to have the person listen to it for a morning, say 'meh!' and demand a full refund
- Customers being sold returned or demonstration stock as new
- Dealers spending a day installing and fine-tuning a system, and being treated like a pizza delivery guy. At the very least, if the guy has spent six hours in your home and he asks to use the rest-room, don't direct him to the gas station five miles away

 

[MylesBAstor]

If I was asking a dealer to bring in a monster speaker for me to listen to (and move MY monster speaker) I would gladly pay something for the privilege...I think it would be the height of arrogance to ask my future dealer (in Miami) to bring a pair of Alexandria XLF's.....heck, it would cost more than $250 to hire the movers to schlep 600lb speakers...and ask for it to be free?? OY!!

Now, if my dealer in Miami charged me $250 to come into the store where the multi ton rig is already setup to listen to it, I would say adios muchachos...

Cheers,

But what if that dealer had 2 or 3 SOTA speakers, say a Magico, Avalon and Martin-Logan and had to move speakers in and out to accomodate the customer?

 

[Shaffer]

I used to sell High-End and cannot see charging for an audition. A qualifier? Is the dealer so incompetent that he cannot gauge an individual's intent? IMNSHE, it takes one question, "What's your system like?" It's not the gear that's asked about, but the way the individual talks about it. Within a minute or two a sales guy can see whether he's a qualified costumer.

I've setup speakers, turntables, and numerous electronics in costumer's homes. In all honesty, I cannot recall a time when that person eventually didn't buy something and put some money in my pocket. There was one guy, I remember, who borrowed a bunch of inexpensive used gear over a period of a month or so and didn't buy anything. That's it. Sure, sometimes the auditions didn't work out, but that same guy came back again to fill another need.

FWIW, I was selling against another store. They weren't as accommodating, relying on the usual salon model. You had to be the "right" sort to shop there. Want to hear something? You need to come back later, if at all. Arms covered in tattoos? Not welcome. A woman, wait a while until they notice you. Ask the price, it's 5% discount, and you better thank them for doing you the favor. They're no longer in business; their principal now supports his family by selling mid-fi for someone else,. The store where I worked is still around.

 

[Shaffer]

I was thinking more about spending an hour at a local dealer asking them to play this model speaker, then that model, then another model, then leaving the store and buying the ones he liked most online. I would never do that, but apparently a lot of people do.

--Ethan

Yes, people do buy from other sources, after spending time at a dealer. Two ways to look at this: The individual would buy at lowest price no matter what - which takes a dealer's efforts out of the equation, regrdless - or the dealer did not do his job selling his service and working with the client on the price. If demo'ing gear is such a hassle for the dealer, perhaps it's time to look for another line of work. It's a part of the job.

 

[andromedaaudio]

i dont think you should have to pay to audition anything .
Its the dealers task to make everything attractive for a potential buyer and maybe get a sale transaction .
Nice acoustical treated room , nice equipment nice cables , if the sale doesnt happen bad luck , the margins are high enough thats not the problem .
That todays world is a internet world ,...well times change , and crisis ...it aint the first one either
Properly set up /maximized products i dont come across that often , and the one that did MIJN HIFI in nijmegen unfortunately went out of business for pretty much the reasons mentioned above .
So in a sense i miss dealers , well good dealers and they are hard to find

 

[sefischer1]

I wasn't advocating it, but i certainly understand it: how many dealers have to spend time on folks who are never going to buy from them (seeking out a better deal, buying used, on Audiogon, let alone the perpetual 'shopper' who will never buy). I would assume most dealers pre-qualify their clients if they can- I know I won't waste the time of the few I buy from by asking to have the thing loaned to me for trial in my system unless I am fully prepared to buy it.
You'd be surprised (maybe not) at the number of time wasters, tire kickers and inveterate 'shoppers' there are for all things, from exotic cars to expensive houses. It's almost like a sport. I'm not suggesting that the OP is any of those, but would reckon a guess that he's never done business with that dealer before? That could be part of the answer- not a good answer, to be sure. If the OP had any sort of relationship with the dealer beforehand, it would be an outrage.
On the other hand, the idea of a charge for an in-home trial, particularly if it involves something like a large speaker and the time and effort involved in transport and set-up, is a little different than an in-store demo. Granted, the dealer would make his profit back on the sale without any sort of pre-paid demo fee. And, if it was a question of a deposit to cover the value of the goods, that would be far in excess of $250. Again, i think it comes down to the dealer properly qualifying the buyer. Back in the day when we had a place that was considerably larger than the one we live in now, we had a rug dealer who was more than happy to leave hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of antique rugs on 'trial' at our house for months, in the expectation that we would buy one. And we did. That of course, was a different economy and he had a pretty good sense we weren't con artists.

Well said!

This is a serious problem for retailers today. Even 20 years ago, I had a colleague who borrowed a BAT VK-500 amp for a week, took an additional week, then returned it, asking the dealer to meet the price he was getting for a potential used piece he found for sale. Totally unacceptable and I would venture unethical of the potential buyer who clearly didn't value the dealers time, service, or investment.

The model of charging a percentage for a home trial was successfully used by the fatwyre folks more than 20 years ago. I paid my 3-5% fee, building a credit, but never taking advantage of the credit because I didn't eventually buy anything. I was fine with it because I got to try the expensive cables without making a very expensive bad choice.

 

[twitch]

With my dealer, I shiver at the hourly rate they want to charge, so I don't audition, say, speakers at home - this simply procrastinates my next purchase and keeps money in my account for much longer, which is fine.

and what would that rate be ? $50....$100 ...... $150 ?

 

[Elliot G.]

Unfortunately, the old adage about a few bad apples seems to apply.

I understand that it takes time to properly set up a demonstration in store, but that's all part of being an audio retailer. In fairness, I think very few dealers do charge for demonstrations, and fewer still are in a position to charge for an installation and stay in business, but the concept tarnishes even those who would never consider such an idea.

Also, I think most people would not have a problem with a paying for the dealer's time and mileage for home installation. However, the few that consider dealers can provide repeated no-cost home demonstrations of products they have no intention of buying have spoiled this for the majority.

While there is no 'fair use' charter between dealer and client, it would be best if everyone behaved as if there were such a thing. That way, we'd get no more instances of:

- Customers traveling miles to visit a dealer to hear a specific device, only to find the dealer doesn't stock that device and tries to sell them something else
- Dealers loaning equipment on home demonstration, only to find it had been used in an underwater knife fight during the loan period
- Customers finding their demonstration wasn't booked, and then being told it was their fault
- Dealers being asked to obtain a specific 'flavour of the month' product, only to have the person listen to it for a morning, say 'meh!' and demand a full refund
- Customers being sold returned or demonstration stock as new
- Dealers spending a day installing and fine-tuning a system, and being treated like a pizza delivery guy. At the very least, if the guy has spent six hours in your home and he asks to use the rest-room, don't direct him to the gas station five miles away

This is a very interesting thread and one that has a lot of relevance in the internet world we live in today. I personally don't ask people to do anything for me if I don't have intentions of paying for it or buying it. This is probably the case for the great majority but it is not the case for all. The "showrooming" tactic, looking at q product in one place to buy it cheaper on the net is not a new thing and has negatively affected many retailers. Retail is dying and that is a fact.
Audiogon, Ebay, Amazon etc are doing good and bad.
I always suggest that if you want to buy gear and you are the type to buy and change you need to establish a relationship with someone who will help you do that. Everyone has the right to earn a living and I do not believe that most understand the economics of the Audio business. Costs for running a business have skyrocketed and margins have gone down. This is true guys not made up.
Lets examine a few of these examples.
Going into a store that has the equipment on display to hear- I think this is normal and obvious however the client should be upfront about his intentions. I have played many things for people that would never buy it but they were honest and nice about it.

Wanting to borrow items for home audition- Taking it home yourself and returning it in a predetermined time frame the same way you got it-
Wanting a home audition of speakers- this is tricky since an example like the Wilson XLF one requires a whole crew to deliver assemble and set up this item- I would think I would have to pay something substantial for that privilege if I could find someone to actually do that for me.
IMHO opinion that is a huge favor to ask anyone particularly if you don't have a serious relationship with them. I don't think I am wrong here.

IMHO it is best to introduce yourself where you would like to do business and truly explain your intentions to get the best treatment.
My business partner and I just went through all of this buying cars and went to a few dealers before we decided where to buy. It wasn't about the price or the nearest place it was about who treated us the way we wanted to be treated and wanted to earn our business.
I said before everyone needs to earn a living and what i your hobby is there way to feed their families and pay their bills.
I believe being honest and respectful goes a long way to making everyone happy.
One last thing . I gave Priaptor everything to have in his home to try for many years and he never paid a cent upfront however he has also earned this by the way he has always been honest and real about what his plans were.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

There is a dealer in my neighborhood who has been doing something similar for decades and he has been successful. He does not cater to audiophiles but to ordinary folks and he provides extraordinary service. The charge is both a qualification by the dealer and a commitment from the consumer. He is, also, not the only dealer in the neighborhood, so one does not have to patronize him if this is an issue.

Since someone revived this thread, here is an update: The subject dealer here moved from an an-avenue shop to a side street and, subsequently, closed. Of course, that may have nothing to do with the demo policy as the neighborhood is riddled with empty shops of all varieties.

 

[marty]

The question isn't really whether I would pay for a demo. I do pay, and I would guess that most of us do. I mean we go to audio shows right? Some require airfare, hotels and meals. (Ked probably has enough frequent flyer miles by now to cover his next world tour for free!). But I have also gone to select dealers and audiophiles around the country because I think it often provides the best way of hearing something set up for optimal performance which does not commonly occur at shows. The cost is considerable if I travel across the country to hear something, which I have certainly done. Even if I do not buy a specific product I am almost always rewarded by being educated, and even better, I might meet like-minded audiophiles who eventually become friends. (Steve and I met this way many years ago). Munich is still on my bucket list....

 

[steve59]

I don't agree with a dealer charging for an in store demo. I demoed 3 int's at home from a dealer near me with a cc # no swipe just the number and my ID and after really liking a $6k product I couldn't get the salesman to budge on the price except to eat the tax for cash...A month goes by and I ask the salesman if I can pay for the demo since I found the same unit near new for 1/2 price online and he gets the owner on the phone and we come to an agreement on his demo product that while wasn't 1/2 price it was good enough to give him my business.
The store owner is a smart guy and he accepts that some are going to take advantage of his demo policy, but it goes with the territory.

When I had my own business I would spend hours with potential customers interested in an addition/remodel and I never considered charging for my time it's part of the job.