Shunyata Grounding System

[stevebythebay]

Actually, connecting a ground cable from ER to the GP-NR of a Shunyata power distributor or Altaira provides a notable improvement in audio quality. Mike Farnsworth, who's a member here, has observed exactly the same thing. And IIRC, stevebythebay has as well.

I think the previous comments were directed to your post on the LPS-1 drilling, rather than the ER.

My experiences with using an Altaira with either my Uptone JS-2 or Cybershaft LPS demonstrated no noticeably better (lower) noise level in the system. And these both have AC grounding via their power receptacles.

 

[Zeotrope]

I think the previous comments were directed to your post on the LPS-1 drilling, rather than the ER.

My experiences with using an Altaira with either my Uptone JS-2 or Cybershaft LPS demonstrated no noticeably better (lower) noise level in the system. And these both have AC grounding via their power receptacles.

Hi Steve, if only DC power is coming into the device, then there will be no benefit from grounding with the Shunyata Altaira or CGS (the ground terminals on the Denali/Everest).
The ground wire going into the Shunyata must have a direct electrical connection (resistance < 1ohm) to the AC ground pin on the AC input connector.

Not sure if this is similar to your power supply, and no idea if the chassis screw is connected to AC ground, but this is where you would want to check via an ohm meter:

 

[stevebythebay]

Hi Steve, if only DC power is coming into the device, then there will be no benefit from grounding with the Shunyata Altaira or CGS (the ground terminals on the Denali/Everest).
The ground wire going into the Shunyata must have a direct electrical connection (resistance < 1ohm) to the AC ground pin on the AC input connector.

Not sure if this is similar to your power supply, and no idea if the chassis screw is connected to AC ground, but this is where you would want to check via an ohm meter:

AC is coming into both power supplies I tested.

And, I did measure the chassis screw resistance of 0.3 ohms to the AC ground pin on both of the LPS’s.

The Cybershaft clock I have is the OP21A-D which has a separate external LPS.

And I did use the Alpha version of the Shunyata ground cables for my testing from each LPS into the Altaira.

 

[oldmustang]

Actually, connecting a ground cable from ER to the GP-NR of a Shunyata power distributor or Altaira provides a notable improvement in audio quality. Mike Farnsworth, who's a member here, has observed exactly the same thing. And IIRC, stevebythebay has as well.

I certainly don't doubt what you, Mike and Steve are hearing. If you and the others say you hear an improvement I have no trouble accepting that.

However, I will still point out that measuring the case to a case-mounted binding post does not ensure that the signal ground plane of the circuit inside the case is being grounded by the DIY binding post.

To ensure that, you must measure from the negative or shell of the DC input and/or output of your UltraCap LPS-1 to your binding post. This is the reason that Shunyata instructs the user to measure from the ground pin of the AC component power cord to the shell of a component's RCA, BNC, pin 1 of an XLR etc to ensure continuity of chassis (safety) ground and signal ground. It is possible that the ground plane of the circuit inside the box is not connected to the box itself. Caelin Gabriel points out in his excellent video with the Suncoast guys that some equipment does not have the signal ground tied to the chassis ground.

It could very well be that what you are grounding is not the LPS-1 but the stray voltages and leakage currents riding along on the output of the power supply supplying the LPS-1. Nothing wrong in this, but I would check it nonetheless and also check the parent AC to DC power supply supplying the LPS-1. I do recall that John Swenson and Alex Crespi have quite a bit of discussion about addressing leakage current on their own and third-party AC/DC power supplies used to power the LPS-1, LPS-1.2 and other products.

Steve Z

 

[kennyb123]

I do recall that John Swenson and Alex Crespi have quite a bit of discussion about addressing leakage current on their own and third-party AC/DC power supplies used to power the LPS-1, LPS-1.2 and other products.

The moat inside the ER keeps leakage currents from passing from side A to side B. This would be for naught if the power supply on the B side passed leakage currents. The ground connection was provided to shunt leakage currents to ground in case a power supply was used that didn’t do this itself. Thus I think the effectiveness of that ground connection would vary based on the power supply used. A Venom ground cable connected between this and the CGS on my Denali v1 barely moved the needle as far as sound quality but I trust that the others who heard an improvement most certainly did. The moat turns the ER into a somewhat unique product so maybe the Altaira guidelines don’t necessarily apply.

 

[stevebythebay]

The moat inside the ER keeps leakage currents from passing from side A to side B. This would be for naught if the power supply on the B side passed leakage currents. The ground connection was provided to shunt leakage currents to ground in case a power supply was used that didn’t do this itself. Thus I think the effectiveness of that ground connection would vary based on the power supply used. A Venom ground cable connected between this and the CGS on my Denali v1 barely moved the needle as far as sound quality but I trust that the others who heard an improvement most certainly did. The moat turns the ER into a somewhat unique product so maybe the Altaira guidelines don’t necessarily apply.

All I know is that wiring the etherREGEN's dedicated ground post to the Altaira did remove a noticeable level of noise reduction. That, even though it is being powered by Uptone's JS-2 LPS which, in and of itself, seems not to have any inherent chassis noise. And the same JS-2 is powering my Roon Nucleus (wish that had an obviously dedicated ground, but it does not).

 

[kennyb123]

All I know is that wiring the etherREGEN's dedicated ground post to the Altaira did remove a noticeable level of noise reduction.

I'm powering mine with a Farad Super3. More likely the reason for me not hearing a noticeable reduction in noise is due to my system's noise floor not being as low. I only have the Denali v1 to ground it to presently.

 

[gleeds]

I find the new wave of grounding devices interesting, albeit Entreq has been at it for some time and perhaps others. Are they a replacement or additive for systems properly grounded from the panel and earth ground and your components connected to a star grounded ground outlet box? Some technical overview on signal vs. chassis grounding and the relative benefits of each approach individually and in combination would be helpful to understand this.

I spec a device from Wisdom Cable Technology for our clients that is an internally star-grounded (8) outlet distribution box costing a fraction that works wonders for noise and cable management. The unit includes audiophile grade outlets, hand soldered 10 gauge OFC copper throughout, and a beautiful machined aluminum chassis. The cost is an incredibly reasonable $850!

I'l look forward to trying out a dedicated component grounding unit such as the new Shunyata model to see if there is a reduction in noise floor given my already well addressed AC and component grounding.

Regardless, you simply cannot go wrong buying one of the WCT boxes!

POWER STAGE ES-10SR Reference Mains Power Distribution

(PLEASE BEWARE OF COPYCATS, BUY AN ORIGINAL) The ES-10 SR is in all forms, pure power, no filters, no added resistance. Newly offered, the ES-10 SR uses 4 Extra Heavy-Duty Cryo-Treated, Proprietary Electro-Harmonic Pulse Treated, Audio Grade duplexes which are proven to be the best overall...

wisdomcabletechnology.com

 

[MarkusBarkus]

And the same JS-2 is powering my Roon Nucleus

...the JS2 has a shared ground across the two outputs, so you are connecting the two devices via the ps, right? Perhaps the Altaira removes something the shared ground created, occurs to me. I have a modded switch that requires 12v and 5v and I didn't use the JS2 for both to keep that OCXO circuit ground away from the "dirty" main board. But in any case, glad things sound good. That's always the challenge!

 

[Puma Cat]

I certainly don't doubt what you, Mike and Steve are hearing. If you and the others say you hear an improvement I have no trouble accepting that.

However, I will still point out that measuring the case to a case-mounted binding post does not ensure that the signal ground plane of the circuit inside the case is being grounded by the DIY binding post.

To ensure that, you must measure from the negative or shell of the DC input and/or output of your UltraCap LPS-1 to your binding post. This is the reason that Shunyata instructs the user to measure from the ground pin of the AC component power cord to the shell of a component's RCA, BNC, pin 1 of an XLR etc to ensure continuity of chassis (safety) ground and signal ground. It is possible that the ground plane of the circuit inside the box is not connected to the box itself. Caelin Gabriel points out in his excellent video with the Suncoast guys that some equipment does not have the signal ground tied to the chassis ground.

It could very well be that what you are grounding is not the LPS-1 but the stray voltages and leakage currents riding along on the output of the power supply supplying the LPS-1. Nothing wrong in this, but I would check it nonetheless and also check the parent AC to DC power supply supplying the LPS-1. I do recall that John Swenson and Alex Crespi have quite a bit of discussion about addressing leakage current on their own and third-party AC/DC power supplies used to power the LPS-1, LPS-1.2 and other products.

Steve Z

Most respectfully gents, I don't have any more time nor inclination for conducting all these "experiments" anymore than I have to count the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin.

What I can say is I, and others here, have connected a ground cable from our EtherREGENs to an Altaira and heard a notable improvement in audio quality. Job done.

Cheers, guys.

 

[Puma Cat]

All I know is that wiring the etherREGEN's dedicated ground post to the Altaira did remove a noticeable level of noise reduction. That, even though it is being powered by Uptone's JS-2 LPS which, in and of itself, seems not to have any inherent chassis noise. And the same JS-2 is powering my Roon Nucleus (wish that had an obviously dedicated ground, but it does not).

Yup!

 

[oldmustang]

Most respectfully gents, I don't have any more time nor inclination for conducting all these "experiments" anymore than I have to count the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin.

What I can say is I, and others here, have connected a ground cable from our EtherREGENs to an Altaira and heard a notable improvement in audio quality. Job done.

Cheers, guys.

As @stevebythebay posted: "I think the previous comments were directed to your post on the LPS-1 drilling, rather than the ER."

My comments didn't mention anything about the efficacy of you or anyone else grounding your EtherREGENS.

Please, carry on.

Steve Z

 

[Lee]

Actually, connecting a ground cable from ER to the GP-NR of a Shunyata power distributor or Altaira provides a notable improvement in audio quality. Mike Farnsworth, who's a member here, has observed exactly the same thing. And IIRC, stevebythebay has as well.

I also heard a lowering of the noise floor resulting in a sound improvement.

 

[Lee]

I will add that one of the biggest improvements came when Grant suggested I connect a ground cable to the chassis of my Ref 160S power amplifier.

 

[Zeotrope]

I noticed a shockingly positive improvement when I connected the DC power supply of my field coil drivers to the Denali ground. I have another Altaira on order to run this through a Signal Hub.

 

[MusicFellow]

Your situation may (emphasis on the word "may" here) be similar to connecting an Altaira to Constellation gear. By this I mean, that if you connect an ohm meter to the ground pin of a Constellation component's IEC power cord receptacle and to one of the chassis fasteners, you do not get a "zero impedance" (0 ohms reading) shown by the ohm meter. This is because of how Constellation does their proprietary grounding scheme. In the case of Constellation gear, you connect the appropriate CGCs to an unused input or output (e.g., an XLR or RCA), to a Signal Ground hub. Luxman and some of the other really high-end mfrs. e.g. CH Precision, Audionet, etc. may require similar approaches. For these applications, as Steve has said, it's critical, both for safety reasons and performance reasons, to work with your trained and certified Altaira dealer. And, if in the case of the component, if it's a dual-mono design, as Constellation is, you need to connect a Shunyata ground cable to an unused connection for each channel (i.e., two CGC cables). In my case, I"m connecting four ground cables: an RCA CGC for an unused L/R RCA interface and two XLRs, for an unused pair of L/R XLR interfaces (an interface could be either an input or an output).

I like to ask for your opinion regarding measuring and approaching these complicated components with no GND posts That do NOT measure below 1 ohm on the signal Inputs or outputs.

My „complicated“ components are:
- Resolution Audio Cantata 3.0 DAC: No connection between IEC pin, because it’s a floating design according to it’s desinger; USB grounds to the server (my Server Has a GND post and works really well): RCA outputs show 25 ohms resistance => does this mean the Cantata is out for using an Altaira or how does your Constellation integrated measure on it’s in- and outputs?
- Bryston 28b3 monos: I see no GND post, the chassis screws dont measure anywhere below 1 ohm and the unused RCA input measures 100 ohms => any thoughts on this one? interestingly the small 4b3 Bryston stereo amp had a below 1 ohm Measurement against one of its chassis screws when testing at my dealer if i remember correctly, so I assumed the big brothers behave similar

 

[stevebythebay]

I like to ask for your opinion regarding measuring and approaching these complicated components with no GND posts That do NOT measure below 1 ohm on the signal Inputs or outputs.

My „complicated“ components are:
- Resolution Audio Cantata 3.0 DAC: No connection between IEC pin, because it’s a floating design according to it’s desinger; USB grounds to the server (my Server Has a GND post and works really well): RCA outputs show 25 ohms resistance => does this mean the Cantata is out for using an Altaira or how does your Constellation integrated measure on it’s in- and outputs?
- Bryston 28b3 monos: I see no GND post, the chassis screws dont measure anywhere below 1 ohm and the unused RCA input measures 100 ohms => any thoughts on this one? interestingly the small 4b3 Bryston stereo amp had a below 1 ohm Measurement against one of its chassis screws when testing at my dealer if i remember correctly, so I assumed the big brothers behave similar

You need more than an opinion! As is proverbial but true: "The proof of the pudding is in the eating".

So start with a very close reading of https://shunyata.com/wp-content/upl...ponent-Continuity-Test-Worksheet-Fillable.pdf

Then work with a pin Altaira "certified" dealer of Shunyata, and finally, if any uncertainty exists, contact the manufacturer. And only then is a home test warranted.

 

[Zeotrope]

You cannot use the ALTAIRA hubs if you don’t have a direct (<1 ohm) connection to AC ground. It’s really that simple.

 

[MusicFellow]

Well, I did everything as described and would be at the conclusion based on the documents those two components are no candidates for connecting to the Altaira. Having said that, I noticed that Caelin doesnt go Into the Details in his Suncoast Audio interview on how to treat components like Constellation, Soulution, CH Precision. So I was wondering what PumaCats measurements are with his Constellation amp. I was also wondering about the 1 ohm threshold, because eg the chassis in both my components have hugh/„infinite“ resistance values (= no Connection) whereas the supposed signal grounds only 25/100 ohms. For example I ground my REL sub via the RCA input of my Bryston amp, so does this mean thats still a feasible ground Connection.

 

[7ryder]

Well, I did everything as described and would be at the conclusion based on the documents those two components are no candidates for connecting to the Altaira. Having said that, I noticed that Caelin doesnt go Into the Details in his Suncoast Audio interview on how to treat components like Constellation, Soulution, CH Precision. So I was wondering what PumaCats measurements are with his Constellation amp. I was also wondering about the 1 ohm threshold, because eg the chassis in both my components have hugh/„infinite“ resistance values (= no Connection) whereas the supposed signal grounds only 25/100 ohms. For example I ground my REL sub via the RCA input of my Bryston amp, so does this mean thats still a feasible ground Connection.

Contact Richard@Shunyata.com. He'll be able to answer all of your questions or he will find out the answers from a team member and follow up with you.

Chris