Shunyata Grounding System

[Zeotrope]

The voltage that flows into each terminal of the Altaira makes its way through whatever material, what Ive I've labeled "secret sauce", to the primary output on the Altaira, and then to a grounding post on your Denali. Likely there is also some energy conversion: "heat dissipation" within, that occurs.

So, let's just say that there's some "break-in" going on, though not quite the same as device or cable-type break-in happening. But it does seem to occur, though it's not as dramatic as the others.

I see, thanks. Yes, according to Shunyata it's 150-200 hours of break-in. Makes sense.

I just went through a "brutal" 150 hour break-in with a Duelund speaker wire... so it makes sense that there would be a break-in with the ALTAIRA.

 

[Puma Cat]

The voltage that flows into each terminal of the Altaira makes its way through whatever material, what Ive I've labeled "secret sauce", to the primary output on the Altaira, and then to a grounding post on your Denali. Likely there is also some energy conversion: "heat dissipation" within, that occurs.

So, let's just say that there's some "break-in" going on, though not quite the same as device or cable-type break-in happening. But it does seem to occur, though it's not as dramatic as the others.

There's no "voltage" flowing into each terminal of Altaira. It doesn't carry any "signal"; it dissipates ground-plane NOISE. Also, a key metric and pertinent metric for the ground cables used for Altaira is impedance. This is why the higher-specification CGC cables, as you move up the line from Venom->Delta->Alpha, etc. provide audible improvements.

 

[stevebythebay]

There's no "voltage" flowing into each terminal of Altaira. It doesn't carry any "signal"; it dissipates ground-plane NOISE. Also, a key metric and pertinent metric for noise is impedance. Inductance also plays a role.

Sorry for using the wrong terminology. My recent experiences in deploying the CG, in concert the Everest’s CGS GP-NR (Ground Plane Noise Reduction), suggested to me that the Altaira is more than a “sink” for noise. The Altaira terminal’s connection to the Everest‘s ground post into its NIC (a less robust technology than the Altaira), provides a path to a common grounding point (0 volts). Ergo my use of “flow”.

I’d appreciate any clarification on what is traversing the Altaira to Everest or Denali or other “ground” connection.

 

[kennyb123]

There's no "voltage" flowing into each terminal of Altaira. It doesn't carry any "signal"; it dissipates ground-plane NOISE. Also, a key metric and pertinent metric for the ground cables used for Altaira is impedance.

I’m not sure that’s right. How can noise flow out if it isn’t traveling in the form of a current? Grounds generally sit at a lower potential. A difference in potential is what gets current to flow. It’s been too many years since college, so I could be confused.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...maybe not current flow in the usual sense? At least the Shunyata gear has a ground post/connection, which makes sense. The boxes with a wire in and no *out* are vexing, as circuits go.

 

[stevebythebay]

I’m not sure that’s right. How can noise flow out if it isn’t traveling in the form of a current? Grounds generally sit at a lower potential. A difference in potential is what gets current to flow. It’s been too many years since college, so I could be confused.

Agree with you that this area of grounding is confusing. Even the concepts guide notes this from the getgo https://shunyata.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2022/08/ALTAIRA-Grounding-Concepts-Guide.pdf

I guess the problem is the manner of defining "noise". Especially as it relates to electric energy, it would seem to "ride" on some part of the electromagnetic spectrum. It's the area of the ground plane in mitigating a signal's return path for reducing inductance that seems to be what this is about. Gotta' get back to school for this I suppose.

 

[kennyb123]

Gotta' get back to school for this I suppose.

Truth!

I skimmed a few things last night pertaining to impedance grounding vs earth grounding. One quote that seemed pertinent:

“The effectiveness of a ground system corresponds to its capability of dissipating currents of numerous wave shapes to the earth. Various current wave shapes include DC, 60 Hz power frequency, high-frequency switching, and lightning surges.”

Also: “Grounding system impedance, on the other hand, plays a particularly important role when dealing with high-frequency transient events.”

Digital noise can be considered a high-frequency transient event so I think it can be considered one type of “current wave shape” which we are aiming to dissipate.

I will read through the concept guide again tonight. Thanks for the link.

 

[stevebythebay]

I was not a fan of Roon either. It wasn’t until I put a high quality LPS on the Nucleus plus and used an Omega Ethernet out of the Nucleus that changed my thoughts regarding Roon. I have had many people over listening to my system and they can not tell the difference between streaming on Roon versus downloaded content on my music server. I can notice a slight difference, but it is not enough of a difference to play someone a downloaded song versus a streaming song. This may seem far fetched, but I promise you it works better than you ever thought Roon could work.

By any chance have you tested whether or not grounding your LPS to the Altaira provides any obvious benefit (given that there are no obvious means for wiring the Nucleus to the Altaira)?

 

[Puma Cat]

I’m not sure that’s right. How can noise flow out if it isn’t traveling in the form of a current? Grounds generally sit at a lower potential. A difference in potential is what gets current to flow. It’s been too many years since college, so I could be confused.

I didn''t say "current", in my reply to Steve, I said "voltage".

 

[Puma Cat]

Also: “Grounding system impedance, on the other hand, plays a particularly important role when dealing with high-frequency transient events.”

Exactamundo, Kenny. This is why the higher-spec ground cables matter and provide an audible improvement; they have lower impedance. For example, put an Omega CGC on your Altaira's 7th terminal to Everest, Denali, etc. Whoa!

 

[Puma Cat]

By any chance have you tested whether or not grounding your LPS to the Altaira provides any obvious benefit (given that there are no obvious means for wiring the Nucleus to the Altaira)?

Yes. I grounded the Uptone LPS-1.0 I use to power OpticalModule to Altaira, and it made an audible improvement. Not huge, but audible. You can also obtain an improvement by connecting a ground cable from the LPS to the GP-NR terminal/system of a Shunyata power distibutor.

 

[Puma Cat]

I guess the problem is the manner of defining "noise". Especially as it relates to electric energy, it would seem to "ride" on some part of the electromagnetic spectrum. It's the area of the ground plane in mitigating a signal's return path for reducing inductance that seems to be what this is about. Gotta' get back to school for this I suppose.

That's correct. That's why the impedance is a key metric.

 

[Puma Cat]

...maybe not current flow in the usual sense? At least the Shunyata gear has a ground post/connection, which makes sense. The boxes with a wire in and no *out* are vexing, as circuits go.

It primarily comes down the impedance.

 

[kennyb123]

I didn''t say "current", in my reply to Steve, I said "voltage".

You had written there is no “voltage flowing”. My point was simply that the voltage potential at the input to the Altaira would have to be lower than the voltage potential at our component for it to serve a a ground. When there is a difference in voltage/potential, the net result is current flowing.

Impedance resists the flow of current. The cables that offer the lowest impedance least resist the flow of ground currents out of our components. Since the difference in potential is tiny with the grounding we are discussing here, this matters a great deal.

 

[stevebythebay]

Yes. I grounded the Uptone LPS-1.0 I use to power OpticalModule to Altaira, and it made an audible improvement. Not huge, but audible. You can also obtain an improvement by connecting a ground cable from the LPS to the GP-NR terminal/system of a Shunyata power distibutor.

Will need to find out which of the chassis screws on my Uptone JS-2 is a suitable ground for connecting to the Altaira.

 

[Puma Cat]

You had written there is no “voltage flowing”. My point was simply that the voltage potential at the input to the Altaira would have to be lower than the voltage potential at our component for it to serve a a ground. When there is a difference in voltage/potential, the net result is current flowing.

Impedance resists the flow of current. The cables that offer the lowest impedance least resist the flow of ground currents out of our components. Since the difference in potential is tiny with the grounding we are discussing here, this matters a great deal.

Good info. Thanks, Kenny. I think we may have gone down a rabbit-hole here (like audiophiles have never done that before ), but you're correct that impedance is the key factor. Cheers.

 

[Puma Cat]

Will need to find out which of the chassis screws on my Uptone JS-2 is a suitable ground for connecting to the Altaira.

I drilled a hole in the case of my LPS-1.0 and installed a ground terminal.

 

[stevebythebay]

I drilled a hole in the case of my LPS-1.0 and installed a ground terminal.

Hoping not to need to do so with the JS-2. Will contact Alex at Uptone to find out if that might be necessary...

 

[kennyb123]

Good info. Thanks, Kenny. I think we may have gone down a rabbit-hole here (like audiophiles have never done that before

Rabbit holes often provide good answers. I know that I don’t understand it so I just put some comments out figuring that eventually they’ll be confirmed or denied. It’s all good as I don’t really need to understand the why.

 

[Puma Cat]

Hoping not to need to do so with the JS-2. Will contact Alex at Uptone to find out if that might be necessary...

I don't think Alex will have any "issue" with it, but it does make for the most effective connection to chassis ground. I added one to my amp as well.

I'm not f**kin' around here...they should have installed these ground terminals in the first place.