Thanks for keeping us apprised of your journey. Interesting stuff.
Shunyata Grounding System
- Thread starter Audire
- Start date
Well, I discovered a number of things. Wiring all the dCS gear to the Altaira using the black chassis screws on the back of each unit is a big positive. This option would not be obvious to anyone who’s looked at the back of the Vivaldi components. It’s clear that, as the documentation points out, this is preferred over using an available signal connector, as described in the Component Continuity Test Worksheet.
Also happened to find by chance that removing the cable from the Cybershaft dedicated ground and resetting the individual switches for the 4 BNC outputs from the Dedicated Chassis setting back to Isolated, improved the SQ in many ways.
A suggested reason that was brought to my attention for the Cybershaft result is that the floating of the ground eliminated any adverse ground loop or other negative effects.
Also happened to find by chance that removing the cable from the Cybershaft dedicated ground and resetting the individual switches for the 4 BNC outputs from the Dedicated Chassis setting back to Isolated, improved the SQ in many ways.
A suggested reason that was brought to my attention for the Cybershaft result is that the floating of the ground eliminated any adverse ground loop or other negative effects.
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When I connected up my main system (First Sound dual-mono preamp and Conrad-Johnson LP70S tube stereo amp), and powered up the LP70S the other night, I noticed it a "buzz/hum" in the right channel, which, after disconnecting literally everything in the system save for just the LP70S amp connected to speakers, I simply could not eliminate. My guess is a tube in the LP70S has gone bad, which seems to be more frequent with tubes these days. :sigh: Now, I have to troubleshoot that...urg.
Anyhoo, given that, last night I set up my little Amp Camp amps (aka "ACAs") that Nelson Pass designed, and I built a couple years ago, and connected them to my First Sound dual-mono preamp. I built a pair of these ACAs in 2020 while recovering from my hip replacement op, and I run two of them as as bridged monos. They were always quite impressive-sounding, even though they're only 15 Wpc of pure Class A power. But, then, they're designed by Nelson, so ya guys know what that means...
They sounded as good as I remembered on their own, but quite frankly, I was blown away when I added my segmented Altaira system (one SG hub specificially for the "digital stack" DAC and ER), and one SG hub for the analog amplification components (specifically preamp and amp) to the ACA-powered system.
Here's a pic of the ACAs and the Altaira(s). The SG Altaira on top of the ACAs is resting on two HRS Nimbus Spacers and Couplers and is the "analog amplification segment", and is connected to the chassis ground terminals of the preamp's main control unit and it's external dual mono power supplies (3 in total). The Amp Camp amps are also connected to this "analog amplification" Altaira using Venom RCA CGCs connected to unused RCA inputs on each each ACA monoblock. The SG Altaira at the back of the photo is dedicated solely to the digital stack, and is connected to the Holo May KTE DAC's unused S/PDIF input and EtherREGEN's ground terminal. Each Altaira is connected at it's 7th terminal using Omega CGCs to separate ground terminals on the Everest power distributor.
Using this this system with the Altairas stripped out so much noise, hash, grunge, and grain from the presentation that it completely transformed the quality and performance of the system powered by these little amps (little yes, but designed by a genius.). The Altaira system also improved the clarity, imaging, added more air as Ivan observed, and the dynamics and "slam" really improved. Most importantly, the system sounds much more natural, "organic". and involving.
It's always interesting that one often don't realize how much noise is really in a system until it's been removed. And once you hear the system with all that noise, hash, and grunge removed, you can't "go back." It literally does not sound like the same system.
Just remarkable.
Anyhoo, given that, last night I set up my little Amp Camp amps (aka "ACAs") that Nelson Pass designed, and I built a couple years ago, and connected them to my First Sound dual-mono preamp. I built a pair of these ACAs in 2020 while recovering from my hip replacement op, and I run two of them as as bridged monos. They were always quite impressive-sounding, even though they're only 15 Wpc of pure Class A power. But, then, they're designed by Nelson, so ya guys know what that means...
They sounded as good as I remembered on their own, but quite frankly, I was blown away when I added my segmented Altaira system (one SG hub specificially for the "digital stack" DAC and ER), and one SG hub for the analog amplification components (specifically preamp and amp) to the ACA-powered system.
Here's a pic of the ACAs and the Altaira(s). The SG Altaira on top of the ACAs is resting on two HRS Nimbus Spacers and Couplers and is the "analog amplification segment", and is connected to the chassis ground terminals of the preamp's main control unit and it's external dual mono power supplies (3 in total). The Amp Camp amps are also connected to this "analog amplification" Altaira using Venom RCA CGCs connected to unused RCA inputs on each each ACA monoblock. The SG Altaira at the back of the photo is dedicated solely to the digital stack, and is connected to the Holo May KTE DAC's unused S/PDIF input and EtherREGEN's ground terminal. Each Altaira is connected at it's 7th terminal using Omega CGCs to separate ground terminals on the Everest power distributor.
Using this this system with the Altairas stripped out so much noise, hash, grunge, and grain from the presentation that it completely transformed the quality and performance of the system powered by these little amps (little yes, but designed by a genius.
). The Altaira system also improved the clarity, imaging, added more air as Ivan observed, and the dynamics and "slam" really improved. Most importantly, the system sounds much more natural, "organic". and involving.It's always interesting that one often don't realize how much noise is really in a system until it's been removed. And once you hear the system with all that noise, hash, and grunge removed, you can't "go back." It literally does not sound like the same system.
Just remarkable.
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You’ve certainly a very fine system. Will be curious about what you “uncover” in using your Altaira. I would bet you’ll be somewhat surprised at the various places in your system where noise is overlaying and keeping quite a bit of detail from emerging. You’re about to embark on a new journey of “adventure” that I liken to “Alice in Wonderland” - puzzling and sometimes infuriating.
There are no "powered components" nor cables, etc., carrying signal or power that do not have noise on them. If a device or component is part of an electrical circuit, it has noise. Even at the lowest "level" of any "electromagnetic" system, there will always be shot noise at the very least.
Looking forward to your impressions of your Altaira when it arrives.
Will be great to hear your experience. I also ordered two Altairas and it will be very interesting for me to see how the Taiko Extreme benefits from connecting it to a SG via its dedicated grounding post.
Please share your results and water my mouth as my Altaira is probably a month or so away.
Happy listening!
Will do. It's arriving today. I may post in the Extreme discussion part of this forum.
That's cool that Taiko has a dedicated grounding post. Wish more companies would do this.
My take away from this is I should be using the Altaira documents to work out the correct grounding method and test out star grounding items back to my Denali prior to committing to the Altaira - is this a fair take away and if so what cable should I be looking at to do this?
Thankyou
My experience with Altaira has shown that each system is different. Each component within the system behaves in ways that may vary considerably in differing environments.
For example, I recently discovered, with the help of Caelin, that when using my Cybershaft clock in concert with the dCS clock and etherREGEN switch, wiring directly from the dedicated grounding screw of the Cybreshaft to an Altaira terminal proved problematic. The result was sonically less focused instrumentation and a narrower soundstage and other oddities.
Yet when wiring from the Cybershaft clock's grounding screw instead to the same connection (chassis screw) on the dCS clock, which, in turn, is wired to the Altaira, proved best.
As it turns out, the two clock outputs from the Cybershaft: one to the dCS clock while the other to the etherREGEN switch are sending any ground-related noise to this common chassis ground screw and, instead of routing the noise to an Altaira terminal, I implemented a short wire from the Cybershaft dedicated ground screw to the dCS clock's ground screw. This is the same location on the dCS that has an Alpha cable running to an Altaira terminal.
This achieves a common ground potential for these specific devices into a single Altaira terminal. The result was quieter than isolating (lifting) ground for the two Cybershaft clock connections (no grounding from the chassis at all).
Ideally having as much detail about the innards of the various components in one's system is helpful, above and beyond component continuity testing. Dealers who've been trained will work with Shunyata on the finer points of a customer's unique system configuration and components to recommend alternative ways of setting up an Altaira solution.
I posted initial listening impressions in the Taiko Extreme thread:
Post #13,226: https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-the-crème-de-la-crème.27433/page-662
Keep in mind there is a 150-200 hour recommended break-in time and I already had ground wires in place before (connected to the Denali's ground terminal).
Overall: if you already own an Everest or Denali and assuming you can ground at least your source components, consider the ALTAIRA a must buy.
Note that the standard ALTAIRA ships with plastic feet. I recommend the ~$400 upgrade to the metal feet, as you get with the Denali and Everest. Not cheap, but the feet are far more substantial than the plastic ones. You can see both below.
Overall packaging and documentation is superlative, as you would expect from Shunyata. Build quality is also top-notch.
Post #13,226: https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-the-crème-de-la-crème.27433/page-662
Keep in mind there is a 150-200 hour recommended break-in time and I already had ground wires in place before (connected to the Denali's ground terminal).
Overall: if you already own an Everest or Denali and assuming you can ground at least your source components, consider the ALTAIRA a must buy.
Note that the standard ALTAIRA ships with plastic feet. I recommend the ~$400 upgrade to the metal feet, as you get with the Denali and Everest. Not cheap, but the feet are far more substantial than the plastic ones. You can see both below.
Overall packaging and documentation is superlative, as you would expect from Shunyata. Build quality is also top-notch.
Omega ground cables ready to be connected:
Keep us up-to-date on your Altaira journey. I suspect you’ll find many unexpected results along the way. How was your dealer in-home analysis experience, which led to your specific purchases? Were you able to get all the components, analog as well as digital assigned through continuity testing, for dedicated chassis, chassis screws, or signal ground? Unlike your Taiko, for example, my Roon Nucleus offers no obvious means for grounding.
Hi, will do!
I did not get a dealer in-home analysis - didn't want it. Honestly, my dealer would not know any more about this that I do, since it's so new. I communicated with Shunyata directly then purchased from a dealer.
I trust Shunyata's claims, and I know that if not satisfied, between them and my dealer, they will resolve the issue. I've never had to return any Shunyata products, but their customer service is outstanding. I believe they will not leave a customer in an unhappy state.
Yes, I was able to test continuity with each component: I only have 1 of 3 components that doesn't have a dedicated ground screw, which was the DarTZeel preamp power supply. I was able to ground that through a chassis screw.
In that case, there are many on this forum who’ll be willing to share more about their own journey with Altaira. Undoubtedly you’ve already been encouraged to test one component at a time and give some time for a bit of settling in. I didn’t think this would matter but whatever “secret sauce” is in the Altaira must be reacting in some way over time to the ”noise” flowing into each terminal. And maybe in future, there will be additional guidance on measuring common ground potential in our systems, to identify alternative options to noise mitigation.
The voltage that flows into each terminal of the Altaira makes its way through whatever material, what Ive I've labeled "secret sauce", to the primary output on the Altaira, and then to a grounding post on your Denali. Likely there is also some energy conversion: "heat dissipation" within, that occurs.
So, let's just say that there's some "break-in" going on, though not quite the same as device or cable-type break-in happening. But it does seem to occur, though it's not as dramatic as the others.
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