Shunyata Grounding System

[FarnsworthAudio]

That’s great to hear @FarnsworthAudio ! And I completely concur: in this hobby, everything matters!

Since you have obviously taken great care to assemble your system and you listen to a lot of digital, you may want to try the Taiko Extreme music server. With their own software, XDMS, it’s a massive game-changer. You can run Roon on the Extreme but it’s nowhere near as good. I defy anyone to say analog is better after hearing both an Extreme and vinyl. Not to get off topic, and there is a great Taiko thread here on WBF; but thought you may be excited to try it out…

I was not a fan of Roon either. It wasn’t until I put a high quality LPS on the Nucleus plus and used an Omega Ethernet out of the Nucleus that changed my thoughts regarding Roon. I have had many people over listening to my system and they can not tell the difference between streaming on Roon versus downloaded content on my music server. I can notice a slight difference, but it is not enough of a difference to play someone a downloaded song versus a streaming song. This may seem far fetched, but I promise you it works better than you ever thought Roon could work.

 

[nonesup]

The Farad Super 3’s LPS’ are for my modem, switch, and Roon Nucleus +. The Altaira does not use power, which is great. You only need to connect the outgoing ground to the power distribution or have an adapter for the ground in your wall.

It is also my case. I use a Farad Super3 for my Modem-Router and a Paul Hynes SR7 for my Melco S-100. But my question had a double aspect: How did I connect a ground cable to the Farad that does not have a ground post (so I suppose he did something similar to Puma in his UpTone) and why connect the chassis to an SG and not a CG

 

[FarnsworthAudio]

It’s definitely confusing. This document is quite clear though, note Step 4 especially:

https://shunyata.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2022/08/ALTAIRA-Hub-Selection-Guide.pdf

Bottom line: if you use only one Hub, get the Chassis hub.
More than 1 hub:
- Digital components - Signal hub
- Analog components - Chassis or Signal hub

What confuses me is that they say the Signal is optimized for digital components. So then why use it for analog as well?

I wanted to address this point on the use for a Signal Hub versus the Chassis Hub. First, I will always recommend an authorized Shunyata dealer to install an Altaira grounding system. Mistakes can happen with your expensive gear and it is important that you have a dealer that knows what they are doing in regards to grounding the various components in an audio system.

The Chassis Hub is for all chassis grounds including digital, unless you advance your system to a segmented system. The CG hub is for all component chassis‘ grounds including digital and it is then connected to your power distribution or the ground on theoutlet in your wall.

Signal Hub is first for grounding the RCA’s or XLR’s of each component in your system. Some devices already have a signal ground connection(CH Precision, Esoteric, Pass Labs, etc.) that will negate the need for an XLR or RCA connection. With my system I have 2 SG hubs for my monos(L and R channel), 2 SG hubs for my source components and preamp(L and R channel) and 1 SG hub for my digital components ground. That being said, I have 3 ground connections from my DAC. I use RCA’s on my left and right channel that are directed to the same hub as my L and R for my preamp. The third connection on my DAC is the AES/EBU that goes to my SG hub for digital components. See how it gets complicated. This is why it is best to have a dealer help you with setting up Altaira’s for your system.

Best wishes, Mike

 

[FarnsworthAudio]

It is also my case. I use a Farad Super3 for my Modem-Router and a Paul Hynes SR7 for my Melco S-100. But my question had a double aspect: How did I connect a ground cable to the Farad that does not have a ground post (so I suppose he did something similar to Puma in his UpTone) and why connect the chassis to an SG and not a CG

I have tested this with my meter on the Super3 and the bottom screws will work as a ground connection. I use an Altaira CG hub for grounding my LPS’. It doesn’t hurt to use the SG hub, it simply has additional filtering. I have not compared the SG vs the CG on LPS’ to see which I would prefer.

 

[nonesup]

The Farad Super 3’s LPS’ are for my modem, switch, and Roon Nucleus +. The Altaira does not use power, which is great. You only need to connect the outgoing ground to the power distribution or have an adapter for the ground in your wall.

I think I misunderstood what you wrote: “My system starts at my modem, since I mostly stream digital. My modem has a Farad Super 3 linear power supply(LPS) and it is grounded to an Altaira SG hub in my utility room”.
I understood that your Farad Super3 was connected to an Altaira SG, but once I read it again, it seems that it is your Modem that is connected to the Altaira SG.

 

[FarnsworthAudio]

I think I misunderstood what you wrote: “My system starts at my modem, since I mostly stream digital. My modem has a Farad Super 3 linear power supply(LPS) and it is grounded to an Altaira SG hub in my utility room”.
I understood that your Farad Super3 was connected to an Altaira SG, but once I read it again, it seems that it is your Modem that is connected to the Altaira SG.

 

[FarnsworthAudio]

Yes I use an open ethernet port to ground the modem with the Altaira SG. I use the same Altaira to ground my Roon, NAS and SOtM switch since these are all digital grounds. I use an Altaira CG hub to ground the LPS’s for each of these components. So to clarify, I use the SG for digital(ethernet grounds) and the CG for the LPS grounding scheme. I apologize for the confusion.

 

[nonesup]

Now it is very clear to me, thank you.
At the moment I am only testing with the ground terminals of my Everest and two generic cables between the Everest and the ground posts of my Amplifier and Preamplifier. I liked what I heard and decided to order an Alpha ground cable and see what an improvement it is over the generic cable.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

Yes I use an open ethernet port to ground the modem with the Altaira SG.

I am interested and have been following these products online, so please consider this as part of my research, not snarky comments.

Ethernet uses tiny transformers to isolate between/among devices, so how would a
ground work via ethernet?

I recognize, one could use a shielded cable, tied-together at each end, to unite the chassis bodies, but it seems to me this is an area where one would want to avoid signal "grounding."

Unifying the various network ps, modem and router chassis shells makes sense, given the info Shunyata provides on these products. Network signal connections, I'm struggling with. Thank you.

 

[FarnsworthAudio]

I am interested and have been following these products online, so please consider this as part of my research, not snarky comments.

Ethernet uses tiny transformers to isolate between/among devices, so how would a
ground work via ethernet?

I recognize, one could use a shielded cable, tied-together at each end, to unite the chassis bodies, but it seems to me this is an area where one would want to avoid signal "grounding."

Unifying the various network ps, modem and router chassis shells makes sense, given the info Shunyata provides on these products. Network signal connections, I'm struggling with. Thank you.

Ethernet has a ground associated with it. So when you connect a Shunyata signal ground cable with an Ethernet end on one end and a spade or banana on the other, it will then connect to an Altaira. An Altaira SG hub is preferred. I recommend reading the concepts guide by Shunyata. https://shunyata.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2022/08/ALTAIRA-Grounding-Concepts-Guide.pdf
This document dives into the various grounding schemes and benefits. It is more technical than other documents, but when we are discussing ethernet grounding and signal grounding, this document explains the reasons behind signal and chassis grounding.

 

[MusicFellow]

Mike / Puma,

you both are most familiar with how the Altairas work, so probably easy for you to answer my question.

Grant was so kind to give a workshop at my local Hi-Fi dealer last week. The system was quite simple, yet resolving. So easy to here the difference. Streaming DAC & integrated tube amp were first connected to the Altaira CG. Quite a big difference: Much bigger, airy soundstage. Instruments had more body and decay and there was less noise/hash. Adding a separate Altaria SG and connecting the DAC/Streamer gave I‘d say another 30% of performance over the single Altaira. The benefit for me was more ease and refinement and less „digitalness“. My takeaway was in this system the investment (especially for the first Altaira) would be a no brainer. Also the positives by the Altaria is something that can‘t be achieved by e.g. getting a better amp, pre or DAC. As Mike put it: Any system north of 20-30k could benefit quite substantially from adding one.

Nowwww, my question: Grant said and I think I‘ve read it here between the lines: If you start with one I has to be the CG model. Once you use two, you could have two SGs. So my question is: Why is that?! Why doesn’t a single SG daisychained into an Everest/Denali doesn’t work, but two do?!
The only explanation I would have is that SG can‘t handle amps, pre amps or analog DACs when there is also a streamer/server.

Any thoughts? Grant said a two set combo of CG/SG is not far of two SGs. I just wanted to avoid the trade-in of the CG, when I plan to add a second or maybe third SG down the road anyway, but like to start with only one…

 

[Zeotrope]

If you start with one I has to be the CG model.

No, this is not true. Grant was consulted for my setup and he agreed that ONE SG hub is perfectly fine - in fact it’s recommended. Not sure why there is so much confusion!
It’s simply determined by what you want to connect to the Hub:
Digital Sources = Signal Hub.
Analog Sources = Chassis Hub.
Digital or Analog to one Hub = Chassis Hub

I have two SGs ordered. Will connect one DG to one Denali. Would have just ordered one SG but I can’t physically connect all components to one.

 

[stevebythebay]

This is what I have been told:

Caelin is adamant that the best single unit Altaira is the chassis hub because of the difference in the way the main terminals are treated. Using a single Signal unit will not give you the same performance as the Chassis unit because of the way each unit is designed to operate.

As I understand it the Chassis hub blocks voltage at the main terminal which makes it a more sympathetic single hub for systems.

There is a slight difference in the filtering of the CG and SG. The SG leans more toward dealing with the types of noise produced by digital devices. The CG, given a single unit focus for a system, deals with a more heterogeneous mix of devices, it would seem.

It would seem that using 2 or more SG Altaira units mitigates the main terminal issue. And there's been quite a bit of testing to confirm this when segmenting analog and digital devices.

Through my extensive testing and the vagaries of my system, I wound up with a CG. All my analog units either did not play nice (Spectral) or are internally grounded or in the case of my dCS Clock "unhappy" with the effects of being connected to the Altaira. Net: only my Uptone etherREGEN switch, Cybershaft clock, dCS DAC, and dCS Upsampler are connected to the CG. The main terminal is wired to my Everest.

By the way, as I’ve found with almost everything I change in my system, the Altaira and cabling benefits from a number of days in use - and do not move the components around or you’ll disturb system performance. Settling in is a fact of life for audio systems.

 

[Zeotrope]

How is the dCs Clock “unhappy” with the Altaira? Is it an internal ground? I cannot see how the Altaira can have a detrimental affect otherwise. Perhaps no affect, but detrimental?
It’s removing noise from the ground, it’s not adding anything.

 

[stevebythebay]

How is the dCs Clock “unhappy” with the Altaira? Is it an internal ground? I cannot see how the Altaira can have a detrimental affect otherwise. Perhaps no affect, but detrimental?
It’s removing noise from the ground, it’s not adding anything.

The dealer went through validating that all the dCS components are “candidates” for the Altaira. No internal grounding would seem to be evident.

For whatever reason, that I cannot explain at all, connecting the dCS Clock to the Altaira seems to create less sonic focus. This Clock is wired to the DAC and Upsampler. Meanwhile, these other dCS units are separately wired to the Altaira. I’m not familiar with ground loops, voltage / impedance potential, or such, but I suppose it’s possible there is some sort of interference or imbalance that’s taking place within this grouping. The etherREGEN and Cybershaft clock are both wired from their dedicated chassis screws. The dCS DAC and Upsampler are wired from S/PDIF digital inputs.

 

[Zeotrope]

The dealer went through validating that all the dCS components are “candidates” for the Altaira. No internal grounding would seem to be evident.

For whatever reason, that I cannot explain at all, connecting the dCS Clock to the Altaira seems to create less sonic focus. This Clock is wired to the DAC and Upsampler. Meanwhile, these other dCS units are separately wired to the Altaira. I’m not familiar with ground loops, voltage / impedance potential, or such, but I suppose it’s possible there is some sort of interference or imbalance that’s taking place within this grouping. The etherREGEN and Cybershaft clock are both wired from their dedicated chassis screws. The dCS DAC and Upsampler are wired from S/PDIF digital inputs.

Have you tried wiring the dCS DAC and upsampler using another connection, like a chassis screw? Perhaps the digital inputs are not actually connected to external ground.

 

[stevebythebay]

You might have missed my update, but my dealer checked that the inputs on both the dCS DAC and Upsampler are suitable for connecting to the Altaira. Continuity checks showed less than 1 Ohm which indicates that the Signal Ground is connected to earth-ground.

 

[Zeotrope]

I would check it myself. It doesn’t make sense that the sound would get worse. Worst case, if it’s truly connected to earth ground, is no perceptible change.

 

[stevebythebay]

I would check it myself. It doesn’t make sense that the sound would get worse. Worst case, if it’s truly connected to earth ground, is no perceptible change.

Checked and double-checked. Mysterious.

 

[MusicFellow]

You might have missed my update, but my dealer checked that the inputs on both the dCS DAC and Upsampler are suitable for connecting to the Altaira. Continuity checks showed less than 1 Ohm which indicates that the Signal Ground is connected to earth-ground.

Steve does that mean the dCS DAC and Upsampler DO work/benefit?
I don’t have a dCS myself, but at the demo of my dealer we used a Rossini Streamer/DAC and it seemed to benefit quite a bit. Although we didn’t test it separate from the Tube integrated, which we both connected to the CG at once. But connecting the Rossini DAC to a separate SG gave more ease and refined to the presentation.
Maybe Shunyata wants to keep a list (at least internally) of components that are quite common like the dCS, MSBs, Lampizators as well as the Common amp manufacturers so that they can give a basic indication where grounding probably works best and also where to best connect it to.

Personally, I‘m really looking forward to try it at home. The benefit I would greet the most would be reducing unwanted (digital) artifacts that irritate our ears and keep us from relaxing more into the music. The other audiophile categories like more decay or airy soundstage are of course very pleasant positive „side effects“.