I know this has probably been discussed, but if one were to start with just one hub would you choose CG or SG Altera?
I already have the grounding on my Everest power conditioner.
Potential customers really need to do their homework up front, first, and read ALL the information linked to above. I can't emphasize this point strongly enough. This is not like buying a new pre, plonking it down on the rack, and connecting it up. You will also need an ohm meter to test connection to ground.
Then, work with a trained and authorized Altaira dealer to determine a configuration and cables best suited to your needs and specific application.
Potential customers really need to do their homework up front, first, and read ALL the information linked to above. I can't emphasize this point strongly enough. This is not like buying a new pre, plonking it down on the rack, and connecting it up.
Then, work with a trained and authorized Altaira dealer to determine a configuration and cables best suited to your needs and specific application.
If you are already using Chassis Grounding via your Everest power conditioner, the first Altaira grounding hub in my opinion to try/buy is the Signal Ground, not the Chassis Ground as the Everest is already giving you a good baseline to work from and you can investigate the significant jump in sound and musical quality you can achieve with the Altaira SG. This is from personal experience and musical listening.
It's not that the Altaira CG is not good, quite to the contrary, it is extremely good and the isolated zones (each grounding post) in the Altaira CG will be a distinct upgrade. I'm thinking of budget and step-wise upgrades. If you have Everest and are using the CG connections, you can then attack the other critical vector to improve sound quality, that being signal grounding versus just upgrading your chassis grounding. Once you get one or more zones of Altaira SG hub deployed, figure out all the best connection points on each piece of gear (sometimes it's 1 or 2, there are cases of components where it can be 3, 4+ etc.), then you can come back around and step up the chassis grounding from Everest to Everest+Altaira CG.
Oldmustang states an essential point about testing and planning using the worksheets. This is not only advisable, it is required to ensure you are applying things properly.
If you are already using Chassis Grounding via your Everest power conditioner, the first Altaira grounding hub in my opinion to try/buy is the Signal Ground, not the Chassis Ground as the Everest is already giving you a good baseline to work from and you can investigate the significant jump in sound and musical quality you can achieve with the Altaira SG. This is from personal experience and musical listening.
It's not that the Altaira CG is not good, quite to the contrary, it is extremely good and the isolated zones (each grounding post) in the Altaira CG will be a distinct upgrade. I'm thinking of budget and step-wise upgrades. If you have Everest and are using the CG connections, you can then attack the other critical vector to improve sound quality, that being signal grounding versus just upgrading your chassis grounding. Once you get one or more zones of Altaira SG hub deployed, figure out all the best connection points on each piece of gear (sometimes it's 1 or 2, there are cases of components where it can be 3, 4+ etc.), then you can come back around and step up the chassis grounding from Everest to Everest+Altaira CG.
Oldmustang states an essential point about testing and planning using the worksheets. This is not only advisable, it is required to ensure you are applying things properly.
100%. The worksheets are "mission-critical" to obtaining the proper and "effective" (doing the RIGHT thing) set-up.
Shunyata knew how important these foundational points about grounding are, as well as the configuration testing results (again, usually conducted with an ohm meter) that are covered in the worksheets, which is why they developed them.
Mark can speak to this as well, but Shunyata put a tremendous amount of work and R&D into developing the Altaira system. The worksheets are a key deliverable as part of that "work product".
I know this has probably been discussed, but if one were to start with just one hub would you choose CG or SG Altera?
I already have the grounding on my Everest power conditioner.
If you will only ever have one Hub and if you are connecting both digital and analog/sources and amps, then get the Chassis Hub.
If the latter is true but you think you may get more than one hub on the future, get a Signal Hub now and another Signal in the future.
If you are already using Chassis Grounding via your Everest power conditioner, the first Altaira grounding hub in my opinion to try/buy is the Signal Ground, not the Chassis Ground as the Everest is already giving you a good baseline to work from and you can investigate the significant jump in sound and musical quality you can achieve with the Altaira SG. This is from personal experience and musical listening.
It's not that the Altaira CG is not good, quite to the contrary, it is extremely good and the isolated zones (each grounding post) in the Altaira CG will be a distinct upgrade. I'm thinking of budget and step-wise upgrades. If you have Everest and are using the CG connections, you can then attack the other critical vector to improve sound quality, that being signal grounding versus just upgrading your chassis grounding. Once you get one or more zones of Altaira SG hub deployed, figure out all the best connection points on each piece of gear (sometimes it's 1 or 2, there are cases of components where it can be 3, 4+ etc.), then you can come back around and step up the chassis grounding from Everest to Everest+Altaira CG.
I agree it’s confusing. The Everest ground connections have nothing to do with Altaira, Chassis or Signal Hub.
Everyone should forget about the “chassis” and “signal” names. They are very confusing. Which Hub to use has NOTHING to do with where you connect (eg a chassis connection) or whether it’s a source (signal) or amp. Richard at Shunyata has confirmed this to me.
Actually, that's not accurate. With respect to proper installation and set-up of Altaira and Gemini ground hubs, they must be connected at their 7th terminal(s) to one of the ground terminals of the GP-NR system of an Everest, Denali, etc. power distributor, to make a proper connection to EARTH GROUND.
If you don't have a Shunyata power distributor, you can buy a special ground cable form your Altaira dealer that can be plugged into a wall AC receptacle to make a safe and proper connection to EARTH GROUND.
Actually, that's not accurate. With respect to proper installation and set-up of Altaira and Gemini ground hubs, they must be connected at their 7th terminal(s) to one of the ground terminals of the GP-NR system of an Everest, Denali, etc. power distributor, to make a proper connection to EARTH GROUND.
If you don't have a Shunyata power distributor, you can buy a special ground cable form your Altaira dealer that can be plugged into a wall AC receptacle to make a safe and proper connectiont to EARTH GROUND.
Very true,...chassis ground (where possible on a component) and signal ground attach points (unused inputs and outputs on any device, could be analog or digital, may or may not provide a sound quality advantage and is dependent upon the device in question) are very different things and the noise in the signal plane is a much higher set of frequencies, thus the specialization ("tuning") of the the Altaira SG-NR for signal grounding. Everest's chassis ground attach points (then internally tied and drained to earth ground via the Everest's connection to power main) are in the same conversation FUNCTIONALLY as the Altaira CG-NR hub as they attack the same problem but not the Altaira SG-NR functionally. There is too much to write about this topic to clarify the differences and why I'm agreeing the statements were not entirely correct; happy to talk it through via phone or IM.
If the base power conditioner is a stack composed of Typhon T2 (20amp) tethered and powering a Denali 6000 v2:
- connect Altair SG-NR post #7 to the ground lug on the Denali and connect the Denali's ground lug to the Typhon T2 ground lug; the Typhon T2 then is plugged into the wall and has connection to earth ground
If Everest, the all Altaira SG-NR post #7 connects to one of Everest's chassis ground lugs, Everest then connected to the wall....
Puma: I saw briefly that you'd posted a diagram of a "dual mono" Altaira architecture with a Dual Mono DAC (or separate chassis) in the picture with preamp and amp having 2 Altaira SG hubs, one for left channel and one for right. Given the ground posts on the Altaira are isolated from each other it seems unnecessary. Candidly, that's the one architecture I don't side with yet pending trying it to see if there is any real difference given the reason above and the fact it seems
diametrically opposed to the already recommended (and proven!) "dual-zone" or "multi-zone" Altaira architecture template images out there where digital and analog components are organized on separate Altaira SG zones (and possible Altaira CG as well).
If the base power conditioner is a stack composed of Typhon T2 (20amp) tethered and powering a Denali 6000 v2:
- connect Altair SG-NR post #7 to the ground lug on the Denali and connect the Denali's ground lug to the Typhon T2 ground lug; the Typhon T2 then is plugged into the wall and has connection to earth ground
Hi - I have mine connected from the Altaira to the Typhon. This is the shortest path to ground, as the Typhon is connected to the AC outlet. This is how Shunyata advised, and you need one less ground cable. Were you told this by Shunyata?
Puma: I saw briefly that you'd posted a diagram of a "dual mono" Altaira architecture with a Dual Mono DAC (or separate chassis) in the picture with preamp and amp having 2 Altaira SG hubs, one for left channel and one for right. Given the ground posts on the Altaira are isolated from each other it seems unnecessary. Candidly, that's the one architecture I don't side with yet pending trying it to see if there is any real difference given the reason above and the fact it seems
diametrically opposed to the already recommended (and proven!) "dual-zone" or "multi-zone" Altaira architecture template images out there where digital and analog components are organized on separate Altaira SG zones (and possible Altaira CG as well).
The AltaIra ground posts are not isolated! If you measure with a continuity meter, you’ll see they are actually all connected.
Shunyata is saying for ‘even better’ performance, to use two Signal hubs, one per channel. I haven’t done so, but I don’t doubt further improvements are possible. Shunyata is quite honest in their claims (they don’t put on a marketing spin, a la PS Audio!).
Hi - I have mine connected from the Altaira to the Typhon. This is the shortest path to ground, as the Typhon is connected to the AC outlet. This is how Shunyata advised, and you need one less ground cable. Were you told this by Shunyata?
Good evening,....I had written "other variants", not a complete set of options to be sure. Yes, during the many months of testing, it was mentioned in a configuration where the length of cable is short between Denali 6000 v2 and Typhon T2 ground posts and given the frequencies of noise and the speed they travel, there is miniscule, if any at all, real difference. In my post I was also remembering an earlier post where it was stated that you cannot reliably stack two connections on a single ground post well (unless 1 is spade and 1 is a banana in which case 2 connects into a single post is easy) so given the Denali needs to be attached to the Typhon T2 anyway, for ease of envisioning the connect strategy I was writing to just connect Altaira post #7 to the Denali and the Denali is connected to the T2 ground post.
What you write is no less correct and is most likely the better way to do it given Shunyata knows far more than I do. I'm just an end user who was fortunate enough to do long term testing and am sharing here; to my ears, such small incremental distances of additional connect had no audible impact.
The AltaIra ground posts are not isolated! If you measure with a continuity meter, you’ll see they are actually all connected.
Shunyata is saying for ‘even better’ performance, to use two Signal hubs, one per channel. I haven’t done so, but I don’t doubt further improvements are possible. Shunyata is quite honest in their claims (they don’t put on a marketing spin, a la PS Audio!).
I cannot see the internals as they are potted however, that continuity meter test only indicates a tie-in to post #7 for ground continuity, not proof positive that the noise sinks (zones, 1 per post) are fully connected and inter-component noise propagation can occur. From their website "Both have six terminals, each with their own dedicated zones of isolation....". From what I was told, a core design principle is that noise cannot flow between those internal zones of isolation.
Yes, fully agree on the integrity, dependability and real science approach of Shunyata (I've been a customer of many generations of products and cables of theirs dating all the way back to 2003-04 and forward for almost 20 contiguous years).
If you read my post again you'll note that I mentioned that a statement based upon my opinion, not one from the vendor's marketing and technical materials nor did I make a statement of absolute fact; it was opinion. I also stated that I did not think it was necessary, pending trying it out! I have a pure dual-mono (2box) DAC and a dual-mono preamp from a design point of view. I know from well over 2.5 years of actual use and testing many permutations that separating analog and digital signal grounding zones brings very audible benefit and the difference is not subtle. To take that further "AND" also follow the dual-mono hypothesis, you (I) would need to have 4 Altaira SG-NR hubs right now in my system, 2 for the digital front-end and 2 for other zone in my system so that I could then further signal ground L and R channels separately. This type of proposition would require demo/test and validation of things I could actually hear before accepting it as necessary and further, advisable.
Good evening,....I had written "other variants", not a complete set of options to be sure. Yes, during the many months of testing, it was mentioned in a configuration where the length of cable is short between Denali 6000 v2 and Typhon T2 ground posts and given the frequencies of noise and the speed they travel, there is miniscule, if any at all, real difference. In my post I was also remembering an earlier post where it was stated that you cannot reliably stack two connections on a single ground post well (unless 1 is spade and 1 is a banana in which case 2 connects into a single post is easy) so given the Denali needs to be attached to the Typhon T2 anyway, for ease of envisioning the connect strategy I was writing to just connect Altaira post #7 to the Denali and the Denali is connected to the T2 ground post.
What you write is no less correct and is most likely the better way to do it given Shunyata knows far more than I do. I'm just an end user who was fortunate enough to do long term testing and am sharing here; to my ears, such small incremental distances of additional connect had no audible impact.
Good evening, have you tried it both ways and it sounds better in your system with the ground wire from the Altaira to the Denali, rather than to the Typhon? I have only tried it connected to the T2. Of course, you will need an additional ground wire if you connect it to the Altaira first.
On this topic, do you have anything connected to the T2 (that is connected to the Denali)? I have my power amp connected to the T2, but Shuyanta suggested trying it both ways (which I have not yet done).
